What is more friendly to the environment (Gas vs. Tires)
 

Is it detrimental to the environment to wear out tires faster for the sake of better fuel economy? Should fuel economy come first before the life of a tire? I was thinking about all those people who take corners at a high rate of speed in order to improve their fuel economy and whether the benefit from improved fuel economy was an improvement to their overall environmental profile.

The base assumption is that a hypermiler with completely filled, possibly LRR, tires wears them do faster than a typical driver and tires. Is that assumption actually correct?
Most hypermilers drive slower, and my understanding is that pumped up tires last longer?

Another thing to consider is the potential reuse of old tires. Once burned the gas is gone

I burn about 500 gallons a year (yes, I drive too much) but I have changed my tires twice since I purchased the car over 5 years ago. the first tire change doesn't really count because the tires were bald when I got the car.

I would say that tire wear isn't really that big of an issue. my tires last a while because I buy the harder composite and I drive much slower and less aggressive. can't remeber the last time I did a burn out in the car (maybe never). I can squeal them a bit going around corners but even that is rare.

************* wasn't generalizing about hypermilers, just asking about the ones who take turns fast in order to carry their momentum through the turn and not have to re-accelerate afterwards. I do.

I may be going 45 on a road where most people go 55, and they may be tailgating me dangerously closely, but when I turn I don't use my brakes...I might enter that turn still at 45, finishing the turn with 40mph still left, leaving them far behind until they finish turning and catch up to tailgate me some more. To avoid wear on the tires I might have to brake down to 30mph and accelerate to 40mph again once I'm going straight.

The increased tire pressure I run definitely helps with wear. I've always enjoyed taking corners fast, and before I started running higher pressure, I'd always wear the edges of the tire first. Now I get approximately even wear. Actually, I currently have slight center wear, but that's not as bad as edge wear IMO and the whole tire will be bald before any cords show in the center.

Potential re-use is kinda meaningless, IMO. Actual re-use is much more important. They could be recapped and put on a car for another 50,000 miles, but they won't. Does anyone know what are the most common destinations for disposed tires?

Oh, and with my aggressive turning, I'm mostly down to the wear bars after 25,000 miles. I looked up reviews of my tires and it seems most people have run them bald by 25,000 miles, so I'm still ahead.

I had my tires down to the wear bars (if I remember correctly) in my mini kei car in Japan. That is from less than 10,000 miles of driving over two years. I pumped them up hard and cornered like it was a Porsche. Usually squealed them around turns. Then again, the Mitsubishi minica costs around $6000 brand new so....

Marvin's tires are "due" can't remember what they've got on them, somewhere around 80,000 I think, but it's been something like 6 or 7 years and they're starting to get checking on the sidewalls. Always seems to me you get the first 25% wear in the first 5,000, the next 25% in 10,000, and the last 50% lasts 40,000 or longer.

old tires are shredded into playground substrate so its safe to fall on and alot of it is used in asphalt roads in the asphalt. im sure theres plenty of other uses too

How do they get the steel cords out of them before using them in playgrounds?

I didn't know they actually are using them in asphalt pavement...I read about it when the technology first came out and haven't heard about it since.

Diversions for stuff like paving and roof shingles are still relatively minor, there's still huge tire dumps all over the place.

It's possible to burn tires very cleanly in a sealed convertor type incinerator, and gain net energy, enough to displace a coal or gas fired power station, with cleaner than coal, as clean as gas emissions, but for some reason that (and other garbage incinerator plans) is unpalatable to the general public (OMG YOU CAN'T JUST BURN IT !!!!!!11111)

Yup, they'd rather stuff it into a stinky landfill, hogging up that land, stinking up the area, and letting it still release greenhouse gas as it decomposes underground. At least some landfills are collecting the gas and burning it for energy these days. When I was little and went to the RI central landfill with my dad they had 20 foot wide pipes coming out of the ground with fire coming out of them to burn off the gas, now they have a small power plant converting that stuff into electricity.

As a guess, magnets.

A Dirty Jobs episode was at an used tire plant. Some were shipped to other countries where it is legal to retread or regroove them. Some are trashed. Most are burned at a cement plant for heat and power. The unburned residue is used as clinker in the cement.

As to the OP, I figure drivers who take turns fast, and don't identify as hypermilers likely have other driving behavours that are unfriendly to tire wear and gas consumption. I also count anyone going beyond taking it easy on the pedal to save gas a hypermiler. Maybe not with the capitol H, but still a hypermiler.

Do they even still use tires in playgrownds anymore? I remember I was like the last generation in my area to have a wood-and tire aspestos filled playground. They got got rid of all the wood and tires one year before I left elementary school.

Depends on your region, but I know there are all these people in arizona with those "earth ship" houses where they pack old tires full of dirt for isolation. I watched a documentary on it, looked pretty cool. Anyone doing that could take the tires off your hands, and it would help them build a more efficient home, so you'd be making them work for the environment even when they are "trash"

https://www.earthship.net/

do you know how hard it would be to ship a kei car over here and get it registered?

I sure hope you didn't mean asbestos... :eek:

The number of things you're NOT allowed to do with tires here is annoying, like those earthship houses, no way to get 'em through building codes, can't use old tires for landscaping either, or boat fenders...

Seriously, you can't use them for boat fenders? What possible reason could there be for that? They seem perfect for the job.

Have we calculated the environmental benefits of LRR tires vs. hard compound tires that take a long time to wear down??? I mean I can sort of see the benefit of LRR tires but if we're inflating our tires to sidewall already, shouldn't one of the benefits of an LRR be significantly reduced? The only things I heard that LRR tires have are less tire flex, less aggressive tread pattern and less tread squirm but wear quicker.

So I have to wonder which tire is overall better for the environment; the one having a "nicer" tread pattern (one of the benefits of LRR) and therefore better fuel economy but wears out quicker or the tire with an aggressive tread pattern but worse fuel economy and takes longer to wear down? How much CO2 and other pollutants are outputted from the production of a tire?

I was under the impression that LRR tires used a harder compound, while performance, and other sticky tires, used softer. Quicker wear would seem to imply more friction between the tire and road.
Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max tires have a 65k mile treadlife warranty. Michelin's gas saver tire didn't have a treadlife warranty, but neither do their regular all season tires.
Without standardized labeling, we are at the mercy of the manufacturer, and what little independent testing is done, as to what is a LRR tire. Some are advertised as saving gas. Others not so advertised come back as LRR after testing.

After about 6 years, you have to worry about tires failing do to oxidation of the rubber. If you are concerned about pollution of tire production and disposal, get tires that will last that long for your use. Preferably a LRR model.

Consider another option: slow down before the turn, to the point where there is no extra wear on the tires. That saves both tires and gas.

Hmm...I had guessed the opposite.

Agreed. The lack of data is very frustrating, and is part of the reason I believe it's more productive to look at a tire's cost per mile of treadwear than to worry about its RR.

I believe that that concern, while valid, gets far too much attention and priority, probably due to sensationalism in news reports.

How would slowing for a turn save gas? I save gas by not discarding my momentum; I carry it through the turn and avoid having to re-accelerate.

ive wondered this...weve never replaced tires due to age...my chevette had bald tires (past the wear bars) and they were from the early 90's that i just replaced 2 years ago.(only because i punctured ones sidewall) prolly still be drivin on em if it werent for that:p

my truck still has 2 factory tires from 95

geez our 4X8 trailer has its tires from 1982!

i think its partially a scam...

Ah, I wasn't clear. Start coasting earlier, so when you get to the turn you are already going slowly. That way you don't have to make the choice between gas and tires. You just take the turn at a reasonable speed, having already used up your momentum in a valuable way - actually moving down the road.

:thumbup:

The original tires on the Ranger went 6 to 7 years before one got a flat. All of them had crackling along tread/sidewall border. I wasn't going to replace them before getting the flat. However, the Ranger wasn't a daily driver at the time either.

6 years seems to be the average warranty length on tires. Will the tire compound last longer than this? Most likely they will. A set of 60k mile tires might also go longer than that. I'm just saying that if you only put 10k miles on a year, don't pay extra for 80k mile tires.

Returning to this:
{So I have to wonder which tire is overall better for the environment; the one having a "nicer" tread pattern (one of the benefits of LRR) and therefore better fuel economy but wears out quicker or the tire with an aggressive tread pattern but worse fuel economy and takes longer to wear down?}

I don't think the question applies to the real world. LRR tires are rated at or near the same tread life of comparable regular tires. It isn't an either or situation.