Starter or Clutch? which to ruin?
 

I have been looking for this answer for quite a while now, and cannot find a definite one. I dont have a scangauge so can't really accurately test it myself.

Anyways. When doing EOC, I hear a lot of people say to compression start the car rather than using the starter. I have a 3.8L V6, so it takes quite a bit of momentum to get the engine going again.

Also in my 25 mile trip I only have the opportunity to EOC 5 or 6 times, but for quite a while.

all I know is I would rather have my starter go out before my clutch. So will I really get much benefit to FE by using the starter instead of compression?

and am I really putting a lot of wear on the clutch by using the compression?

Unless you rev match perfectly your clutch gets a scuff when you put in in gear anyway, so you're basically asking, "Should I wear the starter and the clutch, or just the clutch" ... so just put it in 3rd or something and let the clutch up fast. (Smoothness is only a sign of efficiency when you achieve it by perfectly matching speeds, not by grinding the hell out the clutch to slowly engage it.)

First off, the correct procedure is just to slip the clutch a little and then step it back to the floor, letting the engine start itself once it's been turned over a little.

So, that said, consider the amount of clutch wear we're talking about if you do it right. It's less than starting from a stop in 1st gear. The clutch needs only transmit enough work to crank the engine, not even as much as is required to move the car from 0 to 2mph.

I can use 5th gear to start all the way down to 18mph dependably, or 12mph if I feel lucky.

As for electric starting, I don't know; but plenty of people who don't EOC have to replace starters, solenoids, and batteries more often than clutches...of course those are cheaper to replace too...

It's a personal choice but IMO electric starting is clumsy and unpleasant, while bump starting can be quite graceful and won't be noticed by anyone on the road or in the car.

Hmmm yeah depends on speed, usually when you're starting from a push, usually cold, you need to drop the clutch again but if you're at a reasonable speed and you get the gear right you often don't need to, at least that was my experience last I drove a standard.

you guys are nuts!!! To get a clutch replaced is about $1200! you can replace a starter much easier and cheaper ($100+?). Thats only if its worth it... If you have to do it, save the clutch, man.

IMHO bump starting a car is 100X easier on the clutch than starting the car out from a stop sign. So every bump creates such little wear that it doesn't matter in the end.

True, because on the one hand it's overcoming the inertial mass of the car, and on the other it's just overcoming the inertial mass (plus pumping resistance) of the engine, which is less than the inertia of the car, or you'd never be able to start a motor like that. You can turn a motor over with one human arm, but to propel it from a stop sign at anything like the rate which engaging the clutch does, you'd probably need at least 4 people pushing. Hmmm 8 leg power vs 1 arm power, maybe 10-20 times more wear on launch than a bump start.

Well, let's see...last manual transmission car I had was my '79 Chevette. In 180,000 miles, I replaced the starter nine times (a couple of those were defective starters right out of the box) and the clutch once. With the starter going out so many times, I got to really identify with a couple lines out of "Country Home" by Neil Young:

"I don't like to go down to the flats
'cause I can't park on a hill.
Instead of getting a rolling start,
I have to pay the bill."

When I was a little kid, my dad drove to work in a '49 Ford. Our street had a gentle downhill slope, and he nearly always started the car by popping the clutch. And in the several years he did this, I don't recall him replacing the clutch.

So, I would guess that popping the clutch to restart when EOCing would probably be quite alright. All my examples would be harder on the clutch than EOCing would be.

Clutch kit for a 2001 Chevy S-10: $137.21. https://www.oereplacement.com/partInf...D=R-52332205CK

Plus a twelve-pack of beer for you and a buddy (an extra person makes R&R of the transmission a LOT easier!)

I dunno. I don't EOC much, but I always bump start. But I use 5th when I'm going maybe 10-20 mph. Cant be much clutch wear.

By bump starting do you mean compression starting? If so im not so sure i am doing it right. Or it may just be my car in particular. It only takes maybe 1/2 to a full second to get from the pedal being completely depressed to the engine running. but I lose nearly ten MPH by doing so. And it definitely is noticeable.

Everybody seems to have a different name for it. "Bump starting" seems to be the most common; other people call it kick starting, compression starting, clutch starting, etc.

It sounds like you're just putting it in gear, letting the clutch all the way up, and waiting. That's not the best way to do it.

Here's the procedure to use:

1. Choose a gear higher than you could use to cruise at your current speed. For example, if you're going 20mph and could hold your speed steady in 4th gear, choose 5th.

2. Let the clutch partly up, and don't hold it there. Stomp it back down as soon as you get it up to the friction zone.

• The point here isn't to dump the clutch and let the road keep spinning the engine 1000RPM until the engine makes power; you only want to kick the engine over enough for a couple revolutions. The engine will catch and fire itself up if you do it right.
• For it to work as described, you have to have a modern engine with computer-controlled fuel injection and ignition, and a properly functioning pressurized fuel system.
• The only time I let the clutch stay up for a second or longer is if I accidentally chose a too high gear -- for example, if I'm going 15mph and used 5th gear. Then I want it bring it all the way up for almost a second and stomp it back down, I want it to turn over a few revolutions.

3. Wait until the engine gets up to idle or higher, then choose a gear and engage normally.

Don't forget, it may be illegal to coast with your engine off in your state. If so, you should not do it. There's no way that I know of that they can ever detect it, nor would they ever be looking for it, but if you should have an accident and they suspect that your engine was off you'll probably get whacked with fault no matter whose fault it really is, just because you were doing something weird and illegal.

Try this soda pop.

Place your heel on the floor of the car and use it to anchor your clutch foot.

Depress the clutch fully and choose the highest gear you have.

Let the clutch out about half way then depress it back to the floor quickly.

You are just trying to spin the engine over a few revolutions, for a very short period of time. It takes less than a half a second for the engine to start if it is in good working order in a fuel injected car.

If you are slowing down 10 MPH, while bump starting you are either using the wrong gear or bump starting way to quickly with too much clutch engagement.

Bump starting should be done in the highest gear unless you are going less than 10 mph. The starter will crank your engine at about 300 RPM. In my Toyota Echo that works out to about 7 MPH in 5th.

When you have it down pat, the loss of speed is almost unnoticeable. Once you have the engine running then choose the appropriate gear and engage the clutch as you would do normally.

regards
gary

i have replaced the starter on my 95 s-10, took me about 6 hrs. damn thing didnt wanna come outa its home...(have to remove exhaust downpipe, shields, tire, engine to tranny support rod, starter support rod, then the starter then the inspection plate then gotta wiggle it in weird places to get it to drop....)

ive tried this on my s10, while yes it started it held high rpm's for a long time (like 1500-2K) then it slowly settled down but the gas i saved just got burnt up.... its OBD1 btw

What happens if you use that high RPM by engaging the clutch? You should be able to choose a gear that will fit, or just accept a little clutch wear if you want to use 5th and that would be at lower RPM.

My car's drive-by-wire includes a wonderful :rolleyes: feature/bug called rev hang, so I'm used to engaging the clutch when my foot's off the gas and the RPM is staying high...

yea i used 4th im saying i was coasting to a stop sign and bumped the engine to start then held the clutch in so i could, well stop without stalling and it idled at 1.5-2K. does the same if you accidently kill it and restart it