Parenting help needed....kinda.
 

My wife wants to have kids. We're getting too old to wait much longer, we have to start now or never. I always assumed I would want kids.

I wish I would want kids. I don't want kids.

I try. I try to listen to sappy songs about being a dad, I try to observe kids being cute (and ignore non-cute kids), I try to think about how I can mold someone to be the man I cannot be. I try to imagine that I will be so impressed by the miracle of life as I make someone new exist. I even try thinking about being able to have fun doing things that my wife won't do with me, having an excuse to go out and do fun stuff without her, having a helper when I'm working on my truck or the yard or whatever.

I try all these things, but I can't seem to get anywhere. Nothing makes me want to be a father. Help!

People think they can change other people. Fail.

You can barely change yourself. Unless you really really want to. In order for that to happen you must replace some of your current values with different ones. That means admitting your current values are flawed, no longer relevant, based on bad info, etc. Not likely.

I doubt that the appearance of a new arrival will cause the room to light up, the angels to sing, and bam just like flipping a switch Oh Boy you now love fatherhood.

It just don't work that way.

I know.

You do have a conundrum there with the wife all bent on fertilizing them eggs. They live for that ****. They're wired that way.

I'd tell her to get a hobby or a cat or something. She won't take to that gracefully.

I really don't want kids at this moment (too busy) but eventually I think I will.

I think of kids as a legacy- a place where I can instill all of the positive attributes that were handed down to me and my wife by our parents- so that they can carry on after I am gone and hopefully play a positive role in the world around them.

There is no guarantee that your kids will live close or even want to visit you when you are older, but it seems like they could be a source of holiday companionship and compassion during the last few years of my life- especially if my wife was to pass on first.

I always envisioned myself as wanting kids by the time I'm this old. I was sure I would. I promised I would and I knew she would. There's logical reasons like the legacy thing, and the old age thing, and plenty of others; those aren't enough for me.

She doesn't think she can change me and I don't think I can change her. I'm just trying to change myself.

If the only kids were planned, there would hardly be any.

Legacy- who comes up with that sap? The current bunch of ignorant rude obnoxious punks don't give much hope for that scenario.

Go visit a nursing home sometime and see how much kids care.

P.S. set aside about 1/4 million dollars for yer bundle of joy too.

Just some thoughts...

Realistically, I don't think you can fundamentally change your desire not to have children. The nuclear family has made raising children much more difficult than it should be and a study was released not that long ago showing that, on average and within our systems, the childless are happier.

If you are considering having kids to help fulfill your wife's desires you have to be sure whether or not any resentment will surface later (towards either her or them).

If you're not aware of it already, keep in mind that the rate of defects and complications for both mother and child go up drastically with age. Do some searching for better info than I could give you.

Being a father isn't something you can really prepare for. Watching other families doesn't do it. Borrowing kids doesn't do it. Thinking about it doesn't do it. You can't talk yourself into being ready for it.

Once you're into it, it's an up and down roller coaster for eighteen or twenty years. You alternate between great joy and pride, with disappointment, anger, and sadness spoiling the good times.

I think you can look at yourself and do a quick quiz to see if you're up to the task.

Do you give up on projects, or are you one of those guys who has a passion for tearing apart engines and rebuilding them better than ever?

When confronted with a massive task, do you give up, or dig in, never say die, and take pride on completing the project?

When confronted with marital problems, do you run to the sports bar, or do you love your wife enough to sacrifice your world to make her happy?

If your answer is the second choice to each question, you can do it. If not, you don't have what it takes.

Projects and massive tasks get finished if they're important. If there's no major consequence they never get done.

Marital problems...I've definitely got what it takes. We had it incredibly rough and we stuck it out. We grew as a result and have a very strong marriage, though I'm not dependent on it (I used to be, that was a contributing factor to our problems).

I think I'll rise to the task well enough. I'm confident that I would be a good father if I became a father. I'm just looking for the motivation I always assumed I'd have by now.

Dammit, it's not like there's a people shortage. Nobody has DUTY to replicate. :mad:

I also wonder how much one's childhood factors in. I wonder if ppl with happy childhoods and good relationships with their parents/siblings are more likely to want to have kids than those who don't. I can see if a person had a miserable childhood then they wouldn't want to possibly do that to their own child.

No, but it does seem that those at the bottom of the gene pool seem to have the most kids... I often feel that because of my IQ that I should have at least one child.

I visit/call my grandparents (those that are alive) about once a month and my parents have good relationships with their living parents. I have made many visits to the nursing home.

I agree that many kids turn out bad and dislike their aging parents or want to sponge their money.

If you're tall enough and reasonably healthy, you could look into becoming a sperm donor.

The bottom of the gene pool does reproduce the most. The lower the IQ the more kids it seems.

That's a byproduct of the nuclear family. It's just harder to raise kids and accomplish under that system and the more educated are more likely to anticipate this and act accordingly.

i'm looking at the different responses and i wonder how a child can be compared to a "project" or how a study can show "happiness", or lack there of in regard to parenting. behaviors can be changed...

i thought i hated kids, but what i really disliked was undisciplined kids. there are parents out there that take the time to raise kids of integrity. it bothers me to see kids that are starved of attention, and there are many out there.

theclencher is right tho', a child requires much investment, and not just that of a monetary nature. it's been noted by child psychologists that quantity of time is as important(or more) as quality.

It's not just the gene pool, it's the culture and the way that they raise their kids.

Attention starved kids is a huge one. Other than outright neglect and abuse, I see these as the top three parenting failures (in no particular order):

• Not spending sufficient time with your child and taking enough of a general interest in them.
• Inappropriately projecting your own expectations onto your child.
• Infantilizing your child.

You know something's broken when you have isolated seniors and attention starved kids in the same society.

I have no children of my own blood, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I had a great childhood, both parents are still alive, 3 brothers. We are all fairly close and we take care of our parents to the extent they need our help at 84 and 88.

Its time to sit down with your wife and be totally honest about your feelings. just the way you were with us.

Speak from the heart and see how she reacts. Its a big commitment that never really ends and the result my thrill you or kill you.

My niece (wife's brothers daughter) and her female companion decided to have a child. The companion was artificially inseminated and the child was born with Downs Syndrome. My wife's two daughters have 5 children between them and they are a real pleasure to be with, but that is only part time.

I didn't want children, because I didn't see much of a world for them to grow up in and grow old. I actually thought there was a real possibility there wouldn't be much of a planet left for them after the events of the 50s and 60s, with the environment deteriorating and the world population exploding without my help.

There is a good argument for both having and not having children. The last two generations of my ancestors have seen the next generations shrink considerably, in many cases by 50%.

It also may be your instincts and core beliefs are a response to where this planet is heading and you feel like I did 4 decades ago.

regards
gary

0, 1, or 2. That makes for a stable if not declining population.

I can't fathom why so many "need" to have more than that.

I can assure you, they aren't doing us any favors, and they aren't as great as they think they are.

And yes it's absolutely true that the further down one is on many measures, not just the gene pool, the more they duplicate. Why do we pay for that? It is the very definition of insanity.

I have seriously considered it before... I'm 6'4" so height shouldn't be an issue.

I am just above the desired minimum (apparently 5'11") and I am also considering it. At 6'4", they'd love you!

"I try all these things, but I can't seem to get anywhere. Nothing makes me want to be a father. Help!"

And nothing will "make" you want to become one.

I once told my father (when I was 22) that he hadn't accomplished anything great in his life. At the time, he had four children ranging in age from 12 to 22. His response puzzled me - he just smiled and didn't say anything and gave me a hug too. That was nearly 30 years ago.

Having been a parent myself for 10 years, I now understand why he reacted that way. Raising children is very difficult in time, money, frustration, worry, etc. They are completely, utterly dependent on you for a very long time. And - if you've raised them properly and with a little luck, they will eventually succeed on their own without your continued support. Raising children is for most people the greatest accomplishment of their lives.

If that's their only accomplishment, seems like it's just passing the buck.

Sounds pathetic.

Going back to the OP's first post. If you don't want to, don't. But it does seem like you're asking us to help you change your mind. Not sure what you could see in an emessage that would tip the scales. What are you looking for? Tales of happiness? Pride in our children? We could give you plenty of that, but it still comes back to you and your wife making your own personal decision. If you promised her, that may be reason enough.

You can already see the rest of us have made our own choices, for our own reasons. They're all valid, but it's likely none of them fit your situation well. Good luck in making this difficult choice.

Without a child, who will you pass the Buick on to?

Simple answer comes from Dr. Laura.
'NO' wins.

Neither person should be forced to do something they do not want to do.

So, if one desperately wants a family and the other doesn't.....
someone needs to be set free to follow that dream.

That's exactly it. I want to feel differently about it.

I don't know. I guess maybe those things could help.

That's a valid point, I think. I am a man of my word, and I did promise her. I even promised myself. I think there's a decent chance that I'll come around once I'm actually fathering. I know for sure that I'll do a good job of it. I'm just trying to get into it beforehand...it's important to make the choice because it's what I want.

I compare my problem to the idea I used to have that I, like most other people, would automatically want to by now. I see that I am not like most other people after all; and I worry that I might not be like most of the rest of the other people who felt like I do now before but then came around after they had kids. However, I posted this same thread on another forum with a lot more parents on it, and I haven't heard a single report of a parent who regrets being a parent. Not one.

:D

The way things are going, I'll pass it on to a scrap metal company. If I have a kid I'm sure my non-existent budget for it will remain non-existent. :(

You cannot trust such public polling. There is a great deal of social pressure not to admit regret about having children. A mother just wrote a book about essentially that very thing, and has taken immense flak for it (mentioned in this article). Also, there's undoubtedly a lot of self-deception about regretting having children. It's a well establish psychological principal that people frequently rationalize large mistakes rather than accept them. The most extreme examples are those who believe in faith healing who wind up killing their kids but profess not to regret it later.

I just turned 30 and recently adopted my first child (probably my only child). I did want children. my wife wanted children more than myself.

it is truly one of the hardest things I have ever done. I also worked it out and she is costing me about $1000 a month between childcare, formula, diapers, wipes, and clothes. all this and she is 8 months old.

I would say that if you don't want kids or have no desire for children that you should talk with your wife about it because if you do this and realize that it isn't something you can live with, you can't just undo it.

I used to say, you can sell a house or a car if you realize it was a bad idea but a child is yours at least until they are 18 and usually far past that.

all of that being said, I do love my daughter with all of my heart and wouldn't give her up for the world.

There is also the instinct factor that should not be ignored. When financial issues become a consideration as they have in today's job market, the lack of a feeling of financial security will affect the choice to have or not have children.

The lifetime employment, insurance, and retirement circumstances of many in earlier times gave them a feeling of security where the long term commitment of children was a much easier choice.

In today's job environment for the vast majority of people job security is more of a dream than a reality. In today's situation you may (and I mean may) see the extended family unit and the proximity of your siblings and parents become an increasing important factor in your decision. For my family that has certainly been the case. My parents have been a crucial factor in the growth of their grandchildren. Not to the point that they were a substitute for day care when both parents had to work, but more of another option that provided a real sense of security.

HC, you don't need convincing of anything. You need to sit down with the wife and consider all the factors of your specific situation. If we affect your decision it could always be the wrong decision regardless of how we persuade you to go with the decision.

If uncertainty is the real reason you have serious reservations, then you need to go through the various possible scenarios. This would be the best way to really take a really hard look at the possible consequences of the final choice.

If your relationship is fragile, then you have a real catch 22 type situation. In that case the best choice may be the status quo, because that may be as good as it gets. I know my two step daughters always slept in until after 10AM, when they were single. After marriage and children those days are over for decades.

I wake up most days with the rising sun.


regards
gary

To counter Maximilian's point about polls, I think if you polled non-parents, you'd find a surprisingly large percentage who wish they could have/would have been parents. Regardless of the poll results, YMMV.

For me, having children was like taking an Erector set or chemistry kit, and building a butterfly chrysalis from scratch, then releasing the butterfly. Kids are a grander project than restoring that '57 Chevy, or making that R/C airplane fly successfully. When I'm gone, my children and grandkids will talk about funny or dear old Grandpa, and have a good laugh at the crazy things I did. That's more satisfying to me than the few other mentions of me that will appear in some dull book or monument, or stories by co-workers that may live on in my former office.

My daughter is married to a full Colonel in the USAF. He pulls down a 6 figure income. Their oldest is out of the nest, and #2 is a high school senior. My son and daughter-in-law are just starting their family, and are great parents, doing pretty well for a family that might just fit under the poverty definition. I tell people I have the cutest/best grandkids an unbiased grandparent can have, and it's the truth. You can't buy that experience in a hobby shop or a botique with all the money in the world.

HC,

regardless of what anyone on here says, you have to live with the decision. we can all speculate and tell you the positives and negatives but in the end, you are living with that decision.

sometimes it is hard to determine what is best for yourself. in this situation, only you can determine that.

that is a sucky statement but true none the less.

even my wife that works with kids daily and has for 12 years now admits that it was much harder than she thought. we also both work full time (at a minimum as we both have demanding careers) and have other obligations that we couldn't let go of as well.

That strikes me as not very reliable. It's easy to regret not doing things or lost opportunities. I'm not trying to discourage THC from having kids, but want to make sure he has properly balanced info. I actually like kids; their love of learning is very appealing. For myself, I just don't think it would offset the negatives. Being an uncle seems like the sweet deal to me. :thumbup:

That's pretty much what I'm looking for. I'm well aware of the negatives, which can all be quantified logically; and I think I'm decently aware of the positives. The logic doesn't do the job so I'm looking for something to tip my emotions in the direction I want them to go.

It is indeed easy to regret lost opportunities, and I'd rather not regret them. It's also easy to regret seized opportunities and I'd rather not regret those either.

The uncle thing would work but my sister isn't providing me with that opportunity.

I like to joke that life is a choice between guilt and regret: guilt for the things you do and regret for the things you don't.

I'm not an uncle either. My brother has no kids and is an insane jerk, so I hope it continues that way! When I move to a more populated area I might look into becoming a big brother. Don't know too much about it, though. At our local library I volunteered to install some shelving. A couple kids wanted to "help" me. Took about twenty minutes longer, but they learned a lot.

But it's not offset by a similar number of parents regretting their decisions to have kids - not even by the single parents in poverty.