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-   -   Bio-diesel question (https://www.fuelly.com/forums/f20/bio-diesel-question-13124.html)

theholycow 12-15-2010 09:31 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question
Couldn't the rinse water be re-used indefinitely?

Also, one may potentially slip it into a household hazardous waste disposal program.

Jay2TheRescue 12-15-2010 09:47 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question
Well, it was stated that 2-3 changes of the rise water may be required per batch. This tells me that it is not reusable. Yes, you may be able to sluff some of it off in a hazardous waste collection, but those usually don't run continuously, and there's usually limits on how much one could bring in. Probably the best bet is to see if you can dispose of it with used motor oil, otherwise the costs of disposal will be cost prohibitive.

theholycow 12-15-2010 10:23 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question
I wonder what existing home-brewers are doing about it...there's surely a good percentage of home-brewers who are environmentalists.

trollbait 12-16-2010 01:22 PM

Re: Bio-diesel question
The rinse water can be reused. Once in the rhythm of producing it, the dirtiest water is used for the first wash.

As for contaminated water, you are only dealing with soap, glycerol, and methanol. There may may be traces of lye, but not enough to be concerned about. The soap and glycerol are nothing. It isn't any more than what you already put down the drain. I'm sure there is some biodiesel in the water, but it's less toxic than table salt, and breaks down faster than sucrose in the environment.

The methanol is the only hazardous chemical left after the reaction. Serious home brewers use a vacuum distillation system to recover leftover methanol for reuse after the reaction is done.

The real issue for a home brewer is what to do with the glycerol recovered from seperation. Either making soap or using it for heating seemed to be the common ways of disposal. But that involves more work.

Joining a biodiesel co-opt is another avenue of getting it.

A couple computers ago, I had a good home brewer site bookmarked. I don't have a diesel vehicle, so lost track of it. Searching "Dr. Pepper bottle biodeisel" or "Appleseed Reactor" should turn up sites on home brewing.

Lug_Nut 12-22-2010 04:15 PM

Re: Bio-diesel question
There's no need to 'make' biodiesel, there are people and companies that do it, and do it better, and can afford the testing to certify that their fuel is suitable for use and have the proper disposal programs in place for the glycerol byproduct. I don't bake my own bread and I don't brew my own beer. I'm not about to make biodiesel either.
If you are the type that enjoys that labor and get a level of satisfaction from such, then get "GirlMark"s instructions on building your own "appleseed" biodiesel processor.
Me? I'm too lazy and I'd rather spend my time doing other things. I buy biodiesel at retail, not this B2 and B5 pretense stuff, but B99 and B100.
I drove from Portland ME to Portland OR (for TDIFest), and back, on nothing but commercially available, (not co-op, not members-only, not card-lock), road tax paid and legal, public access, ASTM certified, pump biodiesel. Pull up to the pump and hand over the credit card, and wash my windshield too please. And no jugs in the trunk either. There are enough B99 and B100 stations across the country that I was able to drive from one to another without carrying extra fuel.

Veg oil and heated fuel lines? Thank you! I bought the most recent TDI addition to my "Garage" from a former greaser that accepted throwing away $1000 a year for a new injection pump, because he saved that much in diesel (just broke even), but when the engine needed to be replaced after about 70k miles of grease use, he had enough. The replacement engine is in and all that grease crap has been removed and junked.

trollbait 01-03-2011 06:59 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question
If it's available locally, then great. I too would rather be doing something else, but I haven't past any stations that carry it in my area. It's like E85. I wanted to try it in the Ranger, but I didn't want to drive into the center of Philly for it. Perhaps it will be different if and whenever I get a diesel.

shatto 01-03-2011 08:08 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question

Originally Posted by trollbait (Post 156919)
If it's available locally, then great. I too would rather be doing something else, but I haven't past any stations that carry it in my area. It's like E85. I wanted to try it in the Ranger, but I didn't want to drive into the center of Philly for it. Perhaps it will be different if and whenever I get a diesel.

Hmmmm; I've only seen one place, in Sacramento, with an E85 sign and I drive hundreds of miles a day.

Makes an interesting political point;
General Motors changed their lineup to 'flex fuel' vehicles to use an apparently difficult to find fuel, because in a flash of "I know best" brilliance, President Bush mandated the use of food for fuel and E85 was born.
And we know what happened to them. And the world economy because of that.

And President Obama wants electric cars.........
Hmmmmmm, indeed.

trollbait 01-04-2011 06:45 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question
Whatever the reason for the lack of E85 stations and its use, it has lead to the morphing of the mandate into E10 and E15 by the EPA.

I'm fine with ethanol as an additive to replace MTBE.

As long as it's sourced correctly, not from food, there is nothing wrong with ethanol as a fuel for a vehicle designed for it. I think there are better options though.

Because E85 didn't take off, Ethanol producers are trying to force onto everyone through the government. Even though law mandating E85 doesn't cover other concentrations. The EPA does have a non-mandatory requirement for the use of E15 in all gasoline. The refineries are refusing to mix it because they don't want to be liable for problems it might cause.

As for EVs, the only groups vocally calling for them are mostly people who want them. Battery producers and mining companies would have an interest. However, unlike non-food grade ethanol, there is already a diverse market for their products. The established automakers have dragged their feet on EVs, because it means less business in repairs and basic maintance. They also have ties to oil companies.

Interest was growing before Obama's support. Tesla's roadster sold out, and there is a waiting list for their upcoming luxury sedan. Nissan has decided to skip over the hybrid segment in order to get early establishment in the EV market. Th!nk is planning a return. Ford announced that the new Focus was designed with ICE, hybrid, and EV drive trains in mind over a year ago.

Gas prices are rising. $4.00 by summer will likely happen. EVs will happen with or without government support.

dieselmech 01-04-2011 08:15 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question
I hate getting political, but, the government CANNOT make a system more efficient by making people use something.
Think capitalism, if there is a market for something, people will buy it and use it. For the government to tell people to use something won't make it right,efficient,logical.

In Canada all the gm's are indeed "flex fuel".....but there are no flex fuel gas stations! (in the east coast anyway)
All new cars have nitrogen in the tires, our shop was going to buy two nitrogen generators to refill the tires on our fleet($19,000 total)
I freaked out and questioned why we needed it and was told "new cars come with nitrogen so to top up the tires we need these". I said for $19,000 we can put air in them! "but you can't mix nitrogen and air can you?" WHAT??? NITROGEN IS IN AIR!!! GET OUT OF MY OFFICE!
There are so many government mandated scams. You would not believe the amount of lightbulbs we go through in the offices now! CF lights don't last at all and don't light things up like incandescent..but gov says we have to buy them!

Obama wants electric cars...great, of course the power grid can handle the added load right? [added load? what do you mean?]

We'll power our cars with corn...even though HOW much of our food has ties to corn? STUPID!!!
If we could make fuel out of water the gov would screw it up and say to use potable water only then we'd have water shortages!

(see why I don't like to get political hehe)

If people want something, somebody will make it/sell it/make huge money off it. This is called capitalism with an entrprenuer. It works.
The government mandating the use of something means somebody has to make it and try to sell it, even if nobody wants it. Then they have to ask for subsidies/grants to float them because nobody is buying it. So the government makes everything the people want (the competition for the product) unavailable or outlawed so people HAVE to buy it.

Yes the government sickens me when I see the crap it jams down our throat "for our own good".
Free regulated markets is not an oxymoron.

theholycow 01-04-2011 08:52 AM

Re: Bio-diesel question
LOL, nitrogen is MOST of what's in air...there's a little bit of oxygen, a tiny bit of CO2, and a minuscule amount of other stuff. If the non-nitrogen components leak out of a tire, then it stands to reason that after a few times topping off the tire it will be almost 100% nitrogen.

Your office needs to buy better CFLs. My house has loads of them and does not suffer from the problems you describe.

I don't think the government is trying to make people do these things for economic efficiency.

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