Natural Gas
 

Anyone do a CNG conversion to their diesel?

I would want to be able to switch back and forth between Natural Gas and Diesel.
The problem in California is that the CNG vehicles use it exclusively, which isn't bad for Fed Ex, UPS, USPS and taxi fleets, but I run longer distances so having a vehicle that would run on the under $2.00 fuel until it ran out then I'd switch to conventional fuel.

Re: Natural Gas
 

Dunno about natural gas, but there are propane kits available for diesels. Natural gas requires high pressure tanks, propane less so.

Re: Natural Gas
 

Really!
I was just thinking a sparkplug was necessary.

Re: Natural Gas
 

The propane kits for diesels are for adding propane to the diesel fuel, it apparently helps the fuel burn more completely.
But not to run a diesel engine exclusively on propane!

Re: Natural Gas
 

i've only heard of propane kits for diesel in the context of generating more power. The idea being it's cheaper and faster than swapping out the fuel system and can be switched on/off. Since diesels don't match air to fuel ratio (well, they do some but in general it's not required) to make big power you bolt on a big turbo which gets the air in. If you're already running richer than needed (black smoke) the net result is cleaner running and more power. [here on I'm putting together as I type so i could be wrong] at some point it's impractical or overly expensive to add more diesel via pump/injectors so to add fuel to the overly lean combustion chamber, you inject propane which burns alongside the diesel (and more cleanly) not as much BTU/gallon but something about it works well side by side w/ diesel. the end result (lots of power at the push of a button) is similar to that of nitrous on a gasoline engine

as for switchable dual-fueling a diesel (other than BD)... I'm not sure. AFAIK almost everything else is spark-ignition. Also, AFAIK, propane and CNG/LNG are both carburated or port injected and might preignite at diesel compression ratios (course then again maybe not since they use propane in tractor pulls. I dunno *shrug*). part of the reason diesels use compression ignition is that it's so hard to ignite to start with. another other problem I imagine is that most diesels are in heavy duty or already very high FE applications where torque is king. 130k btu/gal is a LOT more than propane (90k) or LNG (85k)

Re: Natural Gas
 

Just checked in as I'm going to bed so I can't explain it all, but;
Propane is a catalyst. In other words, air/fuel burns at a certain efficiency, air/propane/fuel burns at a higher efficiency.
Think of frying something in a pan dry, then you add butter or oil, the heat can transfer through the oil and have more contact with the food than just the food on the pan. The oil/butter is like a catalyst. The food will cook without it, but the food cooks more efficiently with it.



Strange analogy...I must be tired! LOL!

Oh and the bump in hp is because of the amount of propane injected. I made my own propane inj system and while it smoothed the engine out and made it run much better/cleaner, it only raised the mph about 5-8mph with it on as opposed to it off. Found out I was injecting way to little to boost much of anything. And, the amount I would pick up in mpg would not cover the cost to refill the 20lb bbq tank. (the bbq tank was the problem, I'll explain further sometime)

Re: Natural Gas
 

hi, you all find out my this post is little bit different but yes exactly i am talking about Natural Gas in Greece, Serious scientific evidence shows that the sea area south of Crete holds a wealth of oil, mainly gas, capable to solve the economic problems of Greece, but also to address the issue of unemployment.

The identification was made by professor emeritus Antonis Foskolos of the Department of Mineral Resources and Engineering of the Technical University of Crete, and emeritus researcher at the Geological Survey of Canada, who will speak tomorrow at the Greek Geological Society and the day after at the Economist Conference in Lagonissi.

According to Mr. Foskolos, the proclamation of a Greek Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) has a huge economic and geopolitical importance as they will achieve:

- Exploiting the potential of rich offshore oil deposits in the south of Crete
- The gas pipeline that will pass through the Greek EEZ for the transport of very large quantities of gas runs in the eastern Mediterranean and Crete.

According to the professor, "the 2 areas that have significant scientific evidence is south of Crete, are 9 mud volcanos southeast of Crete, in the Greek Herodotus basin. More: South of Crete, namely around mud volcanos should be no hydrocarbon reserves, but primarily natural gas, approximately 1.5 trillion cubic metres. This is comparable with what has been found in the Nile Delta, the Caspian Sea (deposit Shah Deniz), Norway and elsewhere.

Southeast of Crete is the basin of Herodotus. The Greek part of the basin must have probable reserves of the order of about 2 trillion cubic metres, in line with the discoveries of natural gas in the Nile Delta (SHELL, BP), a very recent study by OMV and estimates of potential gas reserves in the Cyprus section of the basin adjacent to Herodotus the Greek part of the basin of Herodotus . The sediments are of the same origin and geological formations very similar. Of all the potential 3.5 trillion cubic metres gas deducting an amount of 0.75 trillion cubic metres for the elimination of import of crude oil for 25 years, which shows a saving of about 223.75 billion U.S. dollars'.

BENEFITS
For general benefits for Greece, Mr. Foskolos notes, inter alia, that the recovery - exploitation of these deposits will create at least 100,000 jobs in the primary sector and 200,000 jobs in the secondary sector, a total of 300,000 jobs, while all revenue to be reaped by the Greek state in 25 years amounts to 437 billion U.S. dollars and the rate of the dollar to the euro to 302 billion, not counting the profits from the pipeline transportation of natural gas to Europe, at a lenght of 1000 km at a cost of approximately $ 20,000 / km, or 25 billion U.S. dollars.

Professor Giannis Makri agrees with Mr. Foscolo: "There are two potential hydrocarbon reserves southwest of Crete, where sediment has a thickness of 10 to 12 kilometer, and hydrocarbon reserves in Western Crete, where there are 3 fields of mud volcanos.

It is absolutely necessary to undertake three-dimensional high-resolution geophysical surveys under the evaporites throughout southern Crete to discover the size of deposits of hydrocarbons. The cost is estimated at 6 million. "

Re: Natural Gas
 

Greece has the same problem with developing resources as America now does.
Government.

Re: Natural Gas
 

Propane and natural gas are fuels, not catalysts.

Both propane and natural gas may be used in diesel engines, but a small amount of pilot oil must be injected in order to ignite the gas. Here is a link to an interesting diesel that burns up to 99% natural gas:

https://www.fairbanksmorse.com/about/enviro-design/

Propane systems sold for diesels as a simple way to make more power. Modern emisssion controls limit the amount of fuel burned to prevent smoke / particulate emissions. Adding propane uses more of the oxygen in the intake air, making more power. Propane fools the controls.

Re: Natural Gas
 

There's a new company profile on BC Hydro out there. Looks interesting:
https://www.fastmr.com/prod/281767_ca...et_trends.aspx

Re: Natural Gas
 

Injecting enormous amounts of seriously poisonous chemicals into the ground water and igniting some of them, also vaporising the rest of them into the air is not that great. I'd rather run my engine on gasoline or diesel. It's really a shame that they did exceptions from the laws of polluting fresh water for gas and oil companies in the US not long ago. They are there for a very good reason protecting humans and the environment we strongly depend on both economically and biologically.

We have to find some better ways to extract the resources of natural gas if we can be able to use them. Pumping them from the sea floor is a lot less prone to pollution. So just because it's named natural doesn't mean it's environmentally friendly, just naturally occurring.

That said natural and bio gas (from waste) is run as a second fuel on both gasoline and diesel-engines sold in Europe, my sister has a Passat 1.4TSI that does that, so there shouldn't be a problem doing that. You only need a second fuel system running to the engine and a computer that selects between them.

Sludgy, propane is both technically. It is a catalyst for diesel, in other words it help diesel burn more completely and it also can be used exclusively.
There are a three propane powered diesel pulling tractors locally and I talked to one of the owners. He fires it up on diesel then switches to propane. I asked why not run diesel with the propane injected as a boost and he said there's limits to how much it helps diesel. Instead he runs propane and injects methanol....and yet there is another guy who runs his diesel pulling tractor on methanol exclusively!
The guy running propane/meth is the points leader every year and the the guy on meth is normally 4-5th so maybe that says something?
Also, I asked what boost pressure he's running (compound turbo's)
120psi!!!!

Anyway, I'm a diesel mech (obviously) and I am into racing so I do take an interest and try to pry as much info as I can from guys doing stuff like this. The points leader was very hard to get info out of but I'm pretty sure what he told me was true, in other words I don't think he made up stuff to throw me off. "uh yeah kid, I run peanut butter in my diesel...yeah that's it" LOL!

Omg the press sure!! From wikipedia...
"CNG is made by compressing natural gas (which is mainly composed of methane [CH4]), to less than 1% of the volume it occupies at standard atmospheric pressure. It is stored and distributed in hard containers at a pressure of 200–248 bar (2900–3600 psi), usually in cylindrical or spherical shapes."

Reckon Obama will allow the use of any of this?

He has no choice/say in the matter. Too much pressure from the market and crisis in the economy.

If you want to read more about fracking (the method used to extract natural gas from the ground), have a look att wikipedias site which gives a balanced view but when interpreted with care basically says it's horrible:

Hydraulic fracturing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was just thinking what is the proper air to fuel ratio for methane ... Looks like about 20 to 1 ?
I wonder if you can get some energy from decompressing it too, since the pressure is so high.