Drum Brakes
 

Drum Brakes.
Where? How about on the inside and the outside of the wheel?

Boeing did it in the 1930's, before disc brakes.
Boeing B-17 brakes:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-e...2/DSC05700.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-R...0/DSC05692.JPG

Re: Drum Brakes
 

I don't need or want brakes that strong.

But if they were only on the outside, that would probably make checking/servicing them easier.

I'll take my drums on all four corners please.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

lol yea, as long as they are adjusted right they will stop just as good as disc

Re: Drum Brakes
 

In the early to mid 1960's Rolls Royce were copping a lot of bad press for staying with drum brakes when most makers had changed over to discs at least for the front.
Even the humble Ford Escort had front discs at the time.

Rolls Royce provided one of their drum braked vehicles to be compared against ANY disc braked vehicle provided by the motoring press.

The Rolls stopped repeatedly from 60 mph until the linings were worn out while the disc braked car managed it about four times before the brakes overheated and went on holidays to recover.

Rolls Royce didn't make a press announcement about it but the message was very clear.

What is on the spec sheet is only part of the story.
How well engineered and fitted makes up the rest.

Peter.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

One can learn the most interesting stuff here....
Thanks, Peter.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

Not doubting the RR thing Pete but in diametric opposition to that story, disks are usually credited with being superior to drums because they have better heat rejection capabilities. In other words, disks' claim to fame is better fade resistance than drums.

Personally I prefer drums on all four wheels for several reasons, and I have several classic cars equipped as such. I have zero, none, nada desire to convert them to disk as the typical modifier does; in fact I would like to swap out the disks on the fronts of my newer vehicles to drums! Biggest reason would be no drag, although the very latest disk assys. are supposedly far better in that regard. Another thing I dislike about disks is how the dust filthys up the front wheels, especially alloy wheels. If there was a no-drag disk retrofit I would consider that an improvement but would still be stuck with the dirty wheels. Man I hate trying to scrub wheels clean.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

There are dust-free pads you can buy, too.

RR's point was that sub-par engineered discs can overheat much more easily than above-par engineered drums. At that point it becomes like the old unibody-vs-body on frame debate; a unibody CAN be made to handle everything that body-on-frame trucks do, but the industry generally does not engineer and produce such a product.

IIRC, discs weigh less, which is good for handling where unsprung weight is the enemy.

I prefer disc brakes only because I've had bad experiences trying to work on drum brakes and rarely any difficulty working on disc brakes. It's been a lot of years since then, I'm a lot better at this kind of stuff, and I suspect I could service drum brakes with much less stress and difficulty now.

Ok, one other thing I like about discs: You don't have to remove the wheel and struggle to get the stuck drum off in order to check the condition/level of the friction material.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

When disc brakes first appeared, were they solid discs or were they vented as all fronts and many rears are today? Vented discs have much better heat reduction properties than solid discs, and may account for the fade in earlier cars if not so equipped.

I greatly prefer working on disc brakes for the simplicity (no friggin' springs!) and ease of removal/installation. Like THC, I also like being able to inspect brake wear without completely removing a drum.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

Back when Jaguar dominated the world of racing, one reason was because a Jag could 'go deeper into the curve' because of the superior disc brakes.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

Ceramic pads are OEM on the HHR, and are greatly improved over other cars I've had in terms of dust. There are also plastic shields that mount behind the wheel to keep dust at bay.

Drums take a double hit from heat. Not only does the the coefficient of friction drop for the stopping surfaces as the heat climbs, but the drum will also expand and pull away from the shoes.

Personally, I prefer disc just for ease of maintenance. I'll have had the HHR for nearly 3 years soon, and I still don't know how to get the rear drums off.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

well ive got a plethora of different brakes to my disposal:

1929 model AA brakes 4 wheel drum mechanical linkages( front shoes are 1.5"wide rears are 4" wide about 12" diameter drum on front 14" diameter on rear),

1960 VW ghia, 4 wheel drum hydrolic, stops on a dime dont notice brake fade

1980 chevette, front solid disc (non vented) rear drum, stops great when the ****ing master cyl wants to cooperate, dont notice brake fade.

1995 s10 vented disc front drum rear, fronts lock up bad on hard stops have noticed brake fade with it before hauling 1000# of whiterock in the bed, not a fun time

2002 s10 blazer, 4 wheel vented disc, responsiveness like 4 wheel drum but very problematic rear discs. and stupid parking brake shoes on the inside of the rotor that you have to adjust by taking the rotor off and turning a star wheel a little bit till it works...

so all in all id want 4 wheel drum, so much easier. once youve messed with as much brakes as i have drums are cake if ya got the right techniques.

my friends 1975 maverick has 4 wheel drum, it stops great too

Re: Drum Brakes
 

The 4 cylinder base model S10 wasn't made for regular heavy use; I suspect that higher trim levels have better brakes.

Those parking brake shoes can be adjusted? I thought they just had to be replaced. I have to look that up, my 2002 GMC Sierra has 4 wheel discs with the mini-drum in the rotor for the parking brake and my parking brake has been my biggest complain with the truck...for the whole 200,000 miles I've had it, the parking brake has only worked when the truck was new and once after having a mechanic do a comprehensive brake service that probably included all new parking brake stuff and new rotors all around.

...hah! I just looked it up in the service manual. I'll have to try that.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

yea ive been told its adjustable...i think its a dumb design tho... id rather have the whole 8" drum doing the holding not a small 4 inch nub...

from what i remember from highschool auto class a parking brake should be able to stop the car decently quick and lock up the wheels from 30 mph well my s10's starting to slip, need to adjust the cable screw but behold GM and thier stupid designs arent making it easy.

the blazers doesnt work at all with the pedal to the floor

Re: Drum Brakes
 

My dad's 2001 S10's rear brake pads aren't down to the rivets yet; 85,000 miles or so on the vehicle with a good amount of towing. In fact, I don't know if the brakes have ever been serviced, disc rotors or pads.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

i doubt my s10's drums have ever been serviced, i took off the drums around 50 K ago and still look good(has 168K on it now)

i havent had to change anything brake wise pads rotors etc in the almost 70K ive owned it...im sure the rear shoes are origional...

Re: Drum Brakes
 

I'd check the rear adjusters on those rear drums then. They're probably siezed.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

seems to stop fine, BUT you could be right due to the parking brake failing...

last time tho i needed a huge gear puller a cut off torch to heat the drum up red hot and a sledge hammer to get the passenger drum off...me thinks the extreme small tolerance on the center drum hole and the extreme large diameter tolerance for the axle are meeting

Re: Drum Brakes
 

My dad had the same problem on his '92 Sonoma. He couldn't get the drum off once the rears wore out. He finally said screw it and drove it without rear brakes b/c he was too lazy to change them. I drove it a few times, and you would have to mash the brake pedal down all the say to keep it stopped. Very worrisome.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

Getting my drum off recently to inspect my brakes was a huge pain too. Lots of hammering, lots of prying. I was eventually surprised when PB Blaster at the center hole helped.

If I had rear brakes not working after 168,000 miles and the drums just wouldn't come off, I'd consider it worth the cost of paying someone to do it, or worth the cost of replacing the drums after cutting through them (ok, that includes the cost of a bunch of cutoff wheels too - would an angle grinder with thin cutoff wheels do the job?).

Re: Drum Brakes
 

There should be a way of retracting the shoes back from the drum. It's pretty straight forward on a Ranger. Pop off the plug on the back of the brake, lift the ratcheting lever off the adjustment screw with a screwdriver, and turn the screw with a second with another.
I couldn't figure out how to do it on the HHR, and it might require a special tool.

Re: Drum Brakes
 

Yeah, you can do that same procedure on a GM, remove a small rubber plug, then you can run the adjuster in from the back, making it easier to remove.