Project code name Cheese Wedge
Hi guys and gals. It's time to start another project thread. I guarantee you will not find another vehicle like this in America.
My goal is simple for this car. 55-60mph top speed, four wheels, two passengers, daily driver status and the ability to go on any road legally, and no less than 75mpg. It's got to be enclosed and have heat. I'm going to keep the specific chassis a secret for the time being as it is in storage away from home. What I will disclose is that it has an aluminum tube frame. Total vehicle weight is estimated at 1350lbs with a payload of no less than 600lbs, possibly a great deal more. The drive system will consist of a water cooled three cylinder diesel/biofuel engine and centrifugal drive. If I can make it cost effective the drive will also have reverse, but currently I'm not certain it will. I will begin posting photos as the chassis is brought home in the spring. Anyone care to guess what chassis this motor will be in? |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
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Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
the 3 cylinder diesel will probably keep it from being legal on any road. the reason many car companies don't have small diesels is becaue they have to be very clean to be able to put them in a car (trucks have some sort of exemption)
I would think that you could achieve similar with a small 3 cylinder gas given the weight. my first car was a geo metro with the 3 cyl and it weighed in at around 1800#. I would think 500# would be a significant weight reduction. |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Emissions shouldn't be a problem as it will probably be registered as a motorcycle. Anyway I googled it and Minnesota doesn't have emissions testing.
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Sounds like a modified old Volkswagen
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I don't think you can register it as a motorcycle since it has 4 wheels. I thought that was the loophole for the wildfire vehicles and some of the other ones as they had 3 wheels.
I thought also in states that don't do emissions testing that they still check to make sure that the emissions equipment is present. not necessarily functioning but present and accounted for. there again, I will say that I don't know much about minnesota's rules. the whole definition of a motorcycle may also be a state to state thing as well, I'm not sure. it will be an interesting project. |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Hint: The car started life as an EV.
I still may not go with an ICE. My kubota d600 is not in the condition I was hoping it was in. Parts for it are about four times as expensive as any passenger car's. It probably needs a full rebuild (sigh). The answer is: 1976 Sebring Vanguard Citicar. https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...b5856d845e.jpg Again, the vehicle is still in storage so actual car shots are not available. All the panels are in fairly poor condition, but they are restore-able. Great guess Fetch! I would have loved to have gotten my hands on the n600 which the owner's father had in his driveway! I'll see if I can get some pictures of that car while I'm picking up the citicar. |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Here's the wiki for the car:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar Originally the car's top speed was only about 40mph, but was actually legal (but not wise) for highway travel. |
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Clever, Clever. :) |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Just when I thought I might have the idea to make something no one else has, I find this:
https://mattoon.craigslist.org/ctd/2734728689.html It has disheartened me enough that I may just have to rethink my project. The differences would be that this one is motorcycle powered and I doubt it is titled. If the link breaks I can repost images from the ad. I may just have to restore this car and possibly update the controller instead. |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
I'd be very tempted to instead update your controller, swap to LiFeP04 batteries (which would reduce the battery weight by 70%!!!) and add a few more banks of the same batts. The reduction in weight and extra packs would probably double your range and acceleration/top speed. You'd need a new charger too, but otherwise, it would be quite straight ahead.
Good luck! B |
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In KY, the only time that there is any type of inspection is when you buy an out of state vehicle and need to get the title changed to KY. That "inspection" is simply a police employee (not an officer) verifying the odometer and windshield serial number- they never open the hood. |
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I could see how the longer wheelbase of the craigslist car would greatly improve stability at 60 mph- maybe you could do the same and make yours into a 4 seater :D
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The thought was to stretch the wheelbase for stability as stated and keep the rear for utility. I would have used an s-10, geo tracker, or samurai rear end and swapped in a heavier duty motor either electric or diesel. Electric direct drive would be the simplest as reverse wouldn't require any sort of transmission with the low weight, just reversing contactors.
This citicar I've acquired is cheap and small enough for me to keep it long term. Hopefully battery technology will continue to improve and become cheaper. My ideal electric motor choice would be a netgain transwarp7. From what I've seen and heard from the manufacturer is that they have monster torque for a 7" and they like to spin. With 144v and 500a of power the car would be a real performer, easily doing 60mph, probably more like 75mph within the motor's rated rpm range. |
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If I were to just restore the car and update the controller, the car would be speed limited to around 40-45mph, which just does nothing for me as I live in a fairly rural area with most roads having a 50-55mph limit. I would be restoring the car to sell it. My feelings are that a large part of safety is not impeding traffic while driving. |
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The project will be in my possession tomorrow!
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Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
cool beans!
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Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
I've been secretly working on the Citicar. The full game plan has changed as my father will be using the car for a very short commute to the dog park, so the car will stay pretty stock for the time being. It will remain electric, so mpge should be closer to 150/200. Hopefully I can provide some of you some motivation to work on your own projects.
The chassis has been away from me at my parents, so I don't have pictures to provide of that at the moment, however I have the body panels and have been diligently working on restoring them. They came to me in pretty poor condition with all sorts of cracks and breaks. Some are even in multiple pieces. This should be one piece, not three and not missing a chunk: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...a0dbcfde1a.jpg This one should be the entire front and top of the car. It is only most of the front. https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...21ec84435d.jpg |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Here's how to repair a plastic panel with plastic:
1.Sand off anything that isn't plastic, like paint or adhesive. 2.Get MEK from the hardware store 3.Buy ABS sheet from your local supplier of plastics (grainger had sheets) 4.Do the following: Align: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...76b33c9964.jpg Cut a patch and heat form with a heat gun if necessary: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...77d06f06e1.jpg Use a disposable paint brush and work the surface with MEK until sticky. This happens very quickly. Clamp the surfaces together: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...59737d0f94.jpg The panels bond fairly well within a few minutes, but take a few days to fully cure. New sections can be easily heat formed and patched in. Once it's all cured you have a base to work with https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...57c4bdef12.jpg To fill cracked sections on the top side mix scraps of ABS with the MEK in a glass jar, like a pickle jar with a lid until you get a paste the consistency of honey. You can just let the chips sit in the solvent for as long as you would like with the jar lid on. Sitting, it takes about 4-6 hours to melt. This paste can be used by drizzling it into the cracks. The paste takes the same 2-3 days to fully cure as the panel bonding method. Once hardened it can be sanded smooth. I'm looking for a very nice finish and the paste is rather porous. I'll be using a special SEM brand flexible body filler to complete the repairs on the panels prior to painting. More to come later! |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Chris this is awesome! Please keep updating this thread!!! It's been two weeks! What's the latest????
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I've been busy. The projects I have just seem to have no end. The 1984 crx I restored will be for sale soon, even though I promised myself I would keep it forever. I'll never find another one as nice as this one. I've opted for the non gas saver third car, a 1976 2wd GMC Jimmy. That has been getting some attention, but so has this project.
I expect the seats to be back from the upholsterer in the next few days. White with yellow piping. On Monday the chassis was brought over to my place for panel fitment. I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post them. The body work process takes longer than steel cars due to the very long cure time of repairs. I'm still missing a drivers fender which I will probably have to fabricate from scratch. |
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Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
The tray under the seat needs attention. Battery out-gassing and fluid takes it's toll on the aluminum panels. POR15 paint is coming to the rescue.
Here are the tray before shots: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...03cb94faf7.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...0d57c167bb.jpg After about 20 minutes with the air sanders including a die grinder with roloc discs and a DA sander with 120 grit, then coating: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...6074a9d1c6.jpg There isn't much I could do about the pitting. I wouldn't want to use filler since it is much softer than the metal and the coating doesn't bond that well to it. I'll be finishing the tray today and continuing on with the body panels. I hope to have the body done in two weeks. |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
More progress:
Tray completed and batteries at home: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...ab2069172f.jpg Area around the Left turn signal in final stages of repair. All other cracks have been mended: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...3f5395836b.jpg Doors are pretty close to being ready for paint. Cracks have been repaired and filled: https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...dc28b59910.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...478cbcec82.jpg |
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Even more progress:
Rear quarters have been final prepped and sprayed sunburst yellow in Krylon Fusion rattle can paint. https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...3c6b289f19.jpg The interior is back from the upholsterer. Not bad. https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...4df07ec918.jpg |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Much more completed since last post. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...d1b1ee90bd.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...80c23aa45d.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...533402370b.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...ff88fe1056.jpg |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
I've pretty much finished fabricating a new driver's fender.
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...204b45fbed.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...55f6bf87b1.jpg Finished the inner door panels as they had to be opened up to repair the door skin cracks. https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...925869eba1.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...0e9f3d3634.jpg |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
Upon inspection I found that the right front brake assembly did not exist! Someone pilfered it! A full factory brake assembly is nearly impossible to find and not that great to begin with. I did some research and found a possible front brake kit made to work with golf carts. I picked the kit up from buggies unlimited for the economy price of $350 (lol) I've never spent that much on any brakes for any car I've owned. At least there was a nice surprise when opening the kit.
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...a9fe5e0bb9.jpg Wilwood calipers! Very nice. After some figuring I found that the kit wouldn't fit without some doing. The hubs needed to be flipped to back space the rotor correctly. Here's what the setup looks like installed. https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...7dcb315635.jpg I also finished up making the final drive connections with the traction pack and was rewarded with the sound of electric bliss. More to come. |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
I've been horrible about updating this thread as I've made progress.
Brake update: The brakes work just fine, although I don't see them being too effective above 30-35mph. I've put about 8 miles on the chassis now just driving around the neighborhood. These cars are a bit scary to drive. The steering is overly heavy and yet vague at the same time. 40-45mph for a short burst would be as fast as I'd want to go. After changing out the differential fluid the car has now seen 30mph on the flats. It had been closer to 28mph prior. All the electrical is finished up with all LED lighting less the headlamps and tail lights. I could swap in 1157 conversions in the rear, but the incandescents are bright enough. In all likelihood the headlights won't be used on a regular basis. I almost forgot to add, the vehicle is basically done. I'll get some final shots of it posted in the near future. |
Re: Project code name Cheese Wedge
One shot, one vid.
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...70065a860e.jpg Click to see vid. Probably will take forever to buffer. https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...0cd71a6d97.jpg |
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