CRX HF Transmission Rebuild
Well, I got the 10-Ton bearing puller/pusher set for Christmas that I've been lusting over, so now I can start the rebuild on my HF transmission and complete the 5-speed conversion on my 4-Door DX. I'll document the project in this thread. Here's a teaser picture:
https://www.filefarmer.com/2/daxifus/hf.jpg |
You're amazing! Guess what
You're amazing! Guess what guess what!!! I just put my manual pedals in using your write up, took like 9 hours cuz I kept messing up, but I got it done, woo! I love you for writing that. try www.filefarmer.com for free hosting, 3 gigs, it's what I use.
Also, thanks a lot for this thread, I want to rebuild the free hf tranny that I got, and I've got lots of internal tranny questions also. |
Now tell me, how needed is a
Now tell me, how needed is a tranny rebuild for a HF tranny?
The on I have sitting in the garage is a 1990 HF tranny with 160k miles. I was considering rebuilding it, but then someone pointed out to me that 1) It would cost a few hundred dollars, and 2) it probably doesn't need it because people generally do not drive HF transmissions too hard. I'm seriously wondering if I need to rebulid it or not. Doing it myself would be an option, but I really dont' have the time for it. <--perplexed |
I don't know the mileage on
I don't know the mileage on mine, but I want to rebuild it for comfort. I decided to NOT replace the synchros, as this would add about $250 to the cost of the rebuild. I am going to replace all ball-bearings [not the needle bearings] and rubber on the transmission. This tranny sat outside with no speed sensor in it for a while, and when I cracked it open, about 0.5L of water came out. If you look at the picture closely, you can see some surface rust on some of the components. Luckily, all the internals had SOME oil on them so the rust wipes right off. Also, bearings in a transmission are not as subject to how hard a person drives the car as the synchros are - bearings wear out from regular use, whether it was driven hard or not. This is why I have decided to not replace the synchros.
SVO - glad you got the pedals in. What part did you keep messing up on? Was there anything unclear in my writeup that I could make better? Sorry I don't have an pictures of the tranny disassembly - I'll try to take detailed pictures of the reassembly and post them in reverse order as a disassembly guide. Of course I'll also take pictures of the rebuild. Switched to FileFarmer. Thanks for the suggestion SVO! |
Re: I don't know the mileage on
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Re: I don't know the mileage on
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Yep! Now the picture in my pulsejet thread is showing up! |
Just purchased all my tranny
Just purchased all my tranny rebuild parts...now I patiently wait for them to arrive.
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All my parts came in
All my parts came in yesterday! I would go ahead and get started on the build this weekend, but my brother's 97 Civic bombed its transmission, so I'll be putting a new one of those in Saturday morning and Sunday morning. Saturday night is the Superbowl of Motorsports [monster truck show]!!!
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Nice build, but I'd never do
Nice build, but I'd never do it on my car. I have no tools and I have the most economical tranny that was built for my car.
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Re: Nice build, but I'd never do
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His fourth gear is actually
His fourth gear is actually as long as the cx/vx fifth, though the final drive is pretty crappy.
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Re: Nice build, but I'd never do
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This is the best tranny unless I put in a hybrid tranny that is a manual and has the 5th gear very very low. Which means on the street I'll get 25+mpg and on the freeway 35+mpg The sentra tranny is even geared higher. I've checked. |
you do realize the weight
you do realize the weight difference between the sedan and the crx hf, right?
2.95 final or 3.25? if it's 2.95 you're going to hate yourself for putting it on. make sure you run tests to see if it yields you any benefit in mpg. |
I do realize the weight
I do realize the weight difference. I'm not going to hate myself, as I already drive like a grandma. I have another Civic I can drive when I want to go fast.
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Re: you do realize the weight
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CRX HF (1990-1991) = 1967lbs Add one fairly large passenger to the CRX HF and the weight is the same. My understanding is that the HF first and second gears are both rather "peppy" so that accelerating is very achievable. |
Much progress has been made.
Much progress has been made. I hope to update later today or tomorrow with many pictures on my progress.
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Ok, TONS of pictures as
Ok, TONS of pictures as promised:
Are we ready to rebuild yet? Here's my corner of the garrage with all my tranny guts and lots of new parts in pretty little bags with red Honda stickers on them. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16231_2592.jpg An essential tool when rebuilding a tranny is a bearing puller set. This is my bearing separator tool in action on one of the diff bearings. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16227_1471.jpg Here is the puller part attached to the separator. It can handle 10 tons. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16228_1711.jpg Success. Both bearings removed from the diff. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...16229_2070.jpg Pulling the main shaft end bearing. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16230_2309.jpg New main shaft end bearing installed. I didn't have to use a press for this one. This is the only part of the main shaft that I'm dealing with on this rebuild, so it goes to sit in a box for now. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16232_3575.jpg When you first pull out the main shaft, be very careful not to drop, lose, or mix up these two washers that are on the shaft. One is a spring washer and the other is a shim...they're HIGHLY important. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...16233_3821.jpg Another essential tool is the seal driver set I bought. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16234_4087.jpg This is the main shaft seal. Note that the way I am holding it is how it goes in...the side with the words on it does NOT see oil. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16235_4358.jpg Seal driver in action on the main shaft seal. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16236_4796.jpg Main shaft seal in place. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16238_8912.jpg Now driving in the main shaft bearing [often referred to as the ISB or input shaft bearing]. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16239_9178.jpg Aren't brand new bearings just sexy? ISB in place. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16240_9417.jpg A new pickup magnet. It's a pretty good idea to put one of these in, as your old one will be pretty gunked up. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...16241_9694.jpg This is where the new magnet will live. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16242_9937.jpg This is the counter shaft roller bearing. Underneath it is the counter shaft's oil guide plate [white plastic]. I bought a new one for this rebuild, but decided not to install it, as the old one looks fine [no chips, cracks, or deformation]. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16243_7626.jpg This is the main shaft shim. It's located in the deep part of the tranny housing. You have to pull it out to get to the main shaft oil guide plate. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16244_7842.jpg Old main shaft oil guide plate. This one was pretty deformed from heat. Peace of mind will come with a new one installed. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...16245_8117.jpg New oil guide plate installed and main shaft shim reinstalled. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16246_8305.jpg To replace the shift rod seal, you must remove the two gold bolts in the lower right of the picture. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16247_8539.jpg Underneath one there is a ball and spring. Carefully remove these. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...516249_965.jpg The shift rod is now free to be pulled out. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16250_1225.jpg See how dirty my bell housing is? If I wasn't so lazy, I'd clean it now. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16251_1534.jpg Channel locks encourage the old shift rod seal to come out. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16252_1949.jpg Channel locks = 1; Shift rod seal = 0. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...16253_2203.jpg This is where the old shift rod seal went. Don't freak out when you see the black washer under there...it's not part of the seal and is supposed to be there, so don't try to dig it out! https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16255_4781.jpg I found it easiest to prop the bell housing up against a wall so that I could have a perfect vertical to drive the new shift rod seal in place. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16256_5079.jpg New shift rod seal in place. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...16257_5342.jpg This part of the internal shift linkage fell out when I turned up the housing. Just fish it back into place. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16258_5589.jpg Reinstall the shift rod, then drop the ball into place... https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16259_5859.jpg Followed by the spring... https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16260_4685.jpg Then the bolt. Re-torque to spec. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...16261_4961.jpg Mount the counter shaft in a vise. Be sure to protect the teeth when you mount it. I used some polycarbonate scraps. https://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...16262_5177.jpg Use a BFW [big freakin' wrench] to remove the countershaft nut. A new nut should be used and staked each time. https://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...16263_5426.jpg Another spring washer. Be sure to not put this on upside down when reassembling. https://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...16264_5646.jpg Use the puller to remove the two bearings. The top bearing has a slot in it for the snap ring in the housing. https://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...516265_280.jpg That's all for now. I'll take pictures when I visit my friend's shop with the 30 ton press :o!!!! The diff bearings and the counter shaft bearings must be pressed on, or heated then quickly slid on [I've done it this way, but don't feel comfortable doing it]. |
okay, you looking at this
okay, you looking at this makes me have two questions.
1) Do I need a bearing puller tool in order to remove my throwout bearing? 2) If I take a few pictures of my transmission, can you tell me what I might need to replace? Simple things would be good. I have no experience with transmissions at all and I don't want to put it on the engine if it's missing pieces. |
Throwout bearing removes by
Throwout bearing removes by hand...very easy and you don't even have to open the transmission case. I'm going to document that, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
Yeah, take some general pictures of your transmission and I'll tell you what I think. Are you installing an HF transmission as well? |
Re: Throwout bearing removes by
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My ignorance of the inner workings of transmissions should be quite evident. I have changed a few a long, long time ago, but never actually taken them apart. |
cool thread, dax, thanks for
cool thread, dax, thanks for posting the pics.
it sort of de-mystifies the transmission, which i've always viewed as a kind of magical box (i know i shouldn't have that perspective - i've rebuilt a couple of engines, but still). on a side note - i confirmed on the teamswift site that the taller 4-cyl metro/swift tranny is a direct swap into the 3-cyl metros. however, someone piped up with 3rd hand information that the lack of torque in the 3-pot made the taller 5th gear all but unusable (based on someone having tried it). |
Re: Throwout bearing removes by
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I'm honestly scared of the day I have to change the VSS over from my DX to the HF tranny. I'm just scared I'm going to drop something in the transmission and kill it. |
Metro - I know how you feel.
Metro - I know how you feel. Currently, the only thing left on a Honda that I think of as a 'black box' is an automatic transmission, and I hope to conquer that one day too. I used to feel this way about manual trannies, then my VX tranny broke so I took it apart. Now I've rebuilt about 10 Honda manual trannies.
Krous - The HF and DX trannies are similar in that they are interchangable [though some DX trannies are hydraulic, while all HF trannies are cable]. The CRX HF gears are: 1 3.250 2 1.650 3 1.033 4 0.823 5 0.694 R 3.153 FD 2.95 (non-California model) I'm going to confirm this when I count the teeth on my gearsets. A DX box has the following ratios: 1 3.250 2 1.762 3 1.172 4 0.909 5 0.702 R 3.153 FD 4.058 If you're interested in swapping ratios, a Civic VX has pretty good ratios, as follows: 1 3.250 2 1.761 3 1.066 4 0.853 5 0.702 R 3.153 FD 3.25 (same as CRX HF California model) Lowering your FD ratio or putting in a lower 5th for cruising will yield the best results if you don't want to swap the whole transmission. |
Re: Metro - I know how you feel.
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I would say it's cake. I
I would say it's cake. I mean, you still have to remove the countershaft nut and pull the two end bearings to get the gear off the countershaft. To get the gear off the mainshaft you pull a bearing then a synchro hub and you're there. It's easy with the right tools.
The strange thing is, every B-series transmission I've worked on, I've never needed a puller to break down the shafts...the disassemble by hand. All D-series trannies have interference fit components. |
You are soooooooooo cool.
You are soooooooooo cool. Definately the king of the DIY write up, :)
I wish I had the tools and **** so I could do it for fun, not that I have the money, :p |
Well I finished the rebuild
Well I finished the rebuild today. Sorry, no more pictures of the rebuild...I didn't have my camera with me.
I visited my friends shop and got to use his 30 ton press to press the new bearings onto the differential and countershaft. I've definately got to invest in a press...it made it SO easy. After that I installed the new counter shaft nut, staked it, and installed the gear sets into the transmission. After that it's a cinch to button everything up. I counted all gear teeth and confirmed that my gear ratios are: 1 3.250 2 1.650 3 1.033 4 0.823 5 0.694 R 3.153 FD 2.95 I'll start another thread in a few weeks after I do my 5-speed conversion. |
nice. your last gear is the
nice. your last gear is the same as mine. But you have the advantage of using it any time you want. I don't.
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Quote:I'll start another
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In that case, then yes, I'll
In that case, then yes, I'll make it a DIY, complete with photos.
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You're my hero! All the DIYs
You're my hero! All the DIYs are like, install your shifter now, and I'm like, I dunno how to do that, especially sine you need to fab **** up. (That seems to be the rule for all the steps, not just that)
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how much did the bearing separator and puller cost you? did you really need the separator for the mainshaft bearing? mine usually will just come of by pulling(maybe i shouldn't do that?)
this is what i use to pull the bearings on the differential...(yes that is a cheap piece of crap harbor freight bearing splitter, and yes it's bent) https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...c9933da30d.jpg https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...e3a5a5aa58.jpg it does take a little elbow grease to keep the differential from turning the way i do it. i'll have to take a picture of how i put the differential bearings on without a press :) |
I bought my bearing tools from McMaster-Carr and spent about $200. They have been a good investment though, as I have rebuilt a few transmissions with them.
From my experience, I have been able to pull the mainshaft end bearing by hand on all Honda/Acura transmissions, but the diff and countershaft bearings on D-series transmissions require the puller. Only the diff bearings in B-series trannies have required the puller so far as I have experienced. I'm interested in seeing how you reinstalled the diff bearings. Bearings in oven and diff in freezer? I've done that before doing countershaft bearings. :) |
I would really like to rebuild the HF tranny that I just got, just for peace of mind.
Dax, would you mind taking a look at the pics of the tranny I got and giving me your $0.02 worth? https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3022 |
Re: CRX HF Transmission Rebuild
i miss my friend Dax, as well as some of the other original members/creators/moderators.
sweet write up and detailed pics! also, complete w/ busted knuckles for show of authenticity. ;) |
Re: CRX HF Transmission Rebuild
I still peek in once in a blue moon.... ;)
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