Anyone got a dyno?
 

I've been thinking: can't we just kick the *** off all the variables in testing by using a dyno? Does anyone work for a shop or have a friend? Someone must somewhere, now wouldn't that just be awesome? I might think about shelling out the money if I think some mod is worth it or mehbe making a group pool to buy a few hours for someone to dyno test **** for all of us. I dunno, just brainstorming.

correct me if I'm wrong, but
 

correct me if I'm wrong, but how will a dyno really help? It measures horse power, correct?

The idea is that you hop on
 

The idea is that you hop on the dyno stock, then with the mod, for say 60 miles at 60 mph, then you weigh or do whatev you want to determine fuel gone.

Dyno is pointless unless you
 

Dyno is pointless unless you go all out. I think I'll dyno in the 120-125 range

It's not for measuring
 

It's not for measuring horsepower damnit, so the point isn't to go all out, the point it to control conditions like traffic and wind and road grade.

I know what you are saying.
 

I know what you are saying. You want perfect conditions so your tests are always accurate.

Still a lot of money to get dynoed every time to do that.

That's why I was saying to
 

That's why I was saying to pitch in and have someone like larry go out there and test things like wai, different fuel mixes, blah blah blah.

or just do the same test a
 

or just do the same test a couple of times to get rid of the errors, still cheaper than a dyno.

Well that's why I asked if
 

Well that's why I asked if anyone worked in a shop or knew someone! I know a few people that get free dyno time but they don't give a crap about gas mileage, so I figured mehbe someone who did might have one.

How much does dyno time
 

How much does dyno time usually cost?

Depends on the dyno and how
 

Depends on the dyno and how often of a customer you are. Like 30-100 bucks and hour prolly. I know a guy that's gonna open a shop with some friends and build a dyno, so I think I might use him, but that won't be for some months.

anyone got a wind tunnel?
 

anyone got a wind tunnel? :)

SVOboy: (Only a remark if
 

SVOboy: (Only a remark if you dont know:)
You should find a "real/advanced/professional" type dyno that can apply adjustable torque at a particular RPM. Basic, simple inertial dynomometers is not suitable for this job. They are only for testing maximum speed, power, torque, acceleration etc..
Also there are precise fuel consumption testing gadgets used at this type of measurements you might want to use them also.

$150 / hour.
 

$150 / hour.

Re: SVOboy: (Only a remark if
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you'll only find a "real/advanced/professional" dyno like that at a full blown research facility. There's a huge research institute down here (Southwest Research Institute for anyone interested) that does loads of automative testing. I'm sure they have all the equipment we dream of for this hobby. But, they'd probably charge thousands of dollars if not more just for one test. I can't imagine an automotive shop paying for more than what they need (all most people use a dyno for is to get horsepower/torque numbers).

Also, if you need a dyno to see the effects of a mod, then it's probably not worth doing. I think highway testing with the top off method is accurate to +/- 0.1mpg. If you're within that range of error you should probably look elsewhere for potential gains.

Flatland, you're probably
 

Flatland, you're probably talking about an engine dyno. Many "tuner shops" have a chassis dyno, some better than others. The difference is that one dynos an engine by itself and one dynos an engine that is still in the car.

Re: Flatland, you're probably
 

And that "kind" of dyno should be able to apply adjustable torque to the rollers. I dont think they would charge thousands of dollars but definitely it would be much more then just an ordinary maximum power test.

I have two friends on the
 

I have two friends on the east coast if that helps?

We can pull three runs for about $60 where I live.

Nice to see you posting, ,
 

Nice to see you posting, :p, after so long lurking. Where on the east coast to be exact? 3 runs for 60 bucks sounds about standard to me unless you're doing dyno days (which would be cheaper).

i got acsess to a dyno at
 

i got acsess to a dyno at school. it's the ref's but we,students, are able to use it at night. it's a smog dyno so we can put a load on the motor and weigh it but moving the car 3 inches :)

Well then! Willing to come
 

Well then! Willing to come it with a testing procedure with the group that'll be accurate and then go test it out actually?

smog dyno may be perfect.
 

smog dyno may be perfect. you can measure fuel consumption directly from carbon emissions (if you can measure that directly). they're proportional to fuel burned:

Re: smog dyno may be perfect.
 

Be careful with this one. This is how the EPA used to measure fuel economy, which they are now changing due to it being too inaccurate.

that may be, but they tried
 

that may be, but they tried to *extrapolate* MPG figures from the carbon emissions - that's the problem.

if i had a smog dyno, i wouldn't care about extrapolated mpg numbers. fuel used is still directly proportional to carbon emissions, and it's the *difference* in those directly measurable figures (or not) between mods that i'd be most interested in, not some calculated mpg figure.

(not surprisingly, this was how the EPA defended its lame mpg extrapolations: by saying the tests are still a valid way to *compare* different vehicles' relative efficiencies, regardless of the accuracy of the mpg extrapolations. which is true.)

for testing purposes, isn't that the data you're really after?

I totally agree with you
 

I totally agree with you metro. All you need to compare is the number and a percentage, :)

it's a 5 gas analizer, CO2,
 

it's a 5 gas analizer, CO2, O2, HC, CO, and NOx. for those that dont know those :P :

carbon dioxide, higher the better % shows eficenty of cat. bad cat or hollowed = ~11% good new cat ~16%

oxygen, lower is better. 0% is best but will is ok w/ 0.02%

hydrocarbon, unburned fuel. should be like 20-30 ppm gota a missfire this goes up to like 2-300 running super rich like black smoke this is ~3000

carbon monoxide, this is the one that kills u. should be below 100ppm

nitrates of oxygen, this is reason u got the dyno. needs to be mesured on loaded motor. more load more nox. most difficult to control. EGR directly accotiated with nox.

dyno testing
 

Hey all you get from the dyno is a properly running and tuned engine - your mileage result is a function of the engine and the rest of the variables that make the car move through the air and over the ground. Friction, air drag, inclines, all affect mileage and can't be easily measured or simulated on a dyno so why bother - tune the engine the best you can on the dyno and run mpg testing on the road in the real world.

Re: dyno testing
 

Think you missed the point...all of those things like wind and air drag and friction differences are whatmake testing in the real world an issue.

yeah but
 

Yeah But that IS my point - you can't simulate those variables so why even try - drive the roads as you usually do and see what you get. Doesn't matter if I can get better gas mileage on my roads than you can on your roads, only that you get the best that YOU can get. My main drag here is concrete but really bumpy - my neck is killing me from going up and down it today. Thinking about doing my 12 mile lap tonight to see if I get better mileage in the rain. Typically I get 48-53mpg on the trip ScanGauge 25-30mph some hills and a traffic light twice and four stop signs.

Got a friend that is about to take a long trip in his F150 and I got him to try the acetone and maybe the GP-7 in his 25 gallon gas tank. He drives like a madman so it will be a good test.

Quote:Yeah But that IS my
 

THe point is not to simulate variables, it's to eliminate them. If you can prove that a mod does something without the effects of bull**** like wind then you know it acutally does something, whereas you and I could drive on our seperate roads and get opposite results. Less variables is better for testing, that's just that.

Just look at Metro's latest long drive. 10 mpg difference between tailwind and headwind, that kind of variability that makes all MPG claims suspect isn't present on the dyno.

Testing
 

So he knew the wind was a factor so take measurements on non-windy days - the dyno testing is not going to give you wind, only a wind tunnel is and a dyno would have to be a 4 wheel dyno and work consistantly to be accurate. Better to pick a consistant route and drive it the same way usually late at night or early morning when there is little or no traffic. Will have to try using a window fan to blow over a wheel well to see what the air currents do and will need some smoke or water spray to see the air flow. Of course a few telltails would work pretty good for checking air flow at speed with either a chase car or an outside camera on a stick. Actually a little digital camera would work great and I have a couple of them would tell me what is going on under my tail section.

Goodness gracious, the point
 

Goodness gracious, the point is to not have wind! That's the whole idea, is that a dyno won't give you wind. It's not for measuring aero mods, it's for measuring engine mods and fuel types.

dyno
 

Yeah well I said that already - get the tuning of the engine on the dyno and the rest you have to do on the road. We are in agreement already. Btw with the timing advance you usually get the idle going up as it advances with the same amount of fuel. The intake manifold Vacuum Gauge was good for this also - had that in the Rambler - turns out 45mph was a really sweet speed for that engine.

We agree on dyno tuning, but
 

We agree on dyno tuning, but I am also saying that there is no way to test whether dino oil or synthetic gives better mileage without doing something as controlled as running the same car on a dyno with the different oils.

Humm
 

Yeah oil is a good question - my buddy with the F150 and a Prelude with the VTEC swears by Mobile One then he changes it every 3k miles which is a total waste - I have used Castrol regular and then switched to the syntec blend and really didn't see any change and I have recorded every drop of gas and oil added to the car for 12 years and was spread sheeting it for a while. The oil additives made a difference but they take a while to start working usually a few hundred miles at least but you see the idle go up when it does. I thought that someone already did dyno testing on oil already. I still can't figure out why they threw the oil away after testing it all. I pour my old oil back into the new oil containers for recycling . . . someday.

I take all my old oil to the
 

I take all my old oil to the local recycling center, go earth.