Less is more
 

I know regular non-hybrid car could get 50-70 mpg fairly easily. But there is no demand for low power cars.

My dad's Aveo is one of the slowest cars built in 2005. And it's plenty fast enough (103hp). But I guess the normal american would say It takes over 10 seconds to get to 60 that this is brutally slow (10.8 seconds if you were wondering).

Anyways what i am saying is you can't get crazy good mpg with lots of horsepower. A Honda insight with a geo metro engine in it would get almost the same milage as stock (maybee higher because it wouldn't have to carry the batteries around).

https://www.micro-car.co.uk/themc1car.htm

^ this car can do 72mph with only 21 hp. Thats a bit slow but with a few more HP (maybee an added turbo) it could keep up on the highway.

The insight has a 1.0 also,
 

The insight has a 1.0 also, and I'd vote for it because honda just engineers better, so don't stick a metro engine in it!

Also, yes, I agree. That's quite the case (except for that diesel accord).

I have this theory that if you take a 1.5 and sleeve it to a 1.3 then stroke it to a 1.5 again you'll get a lot better mileage than the stock 1.5, but no one has tried to my knowledge.

If you are driving at normal
 

If you are driving at normal legal speeds you don't need nuch power at all. I would say that 99% of drivers don't need the amount of power there car has.

I am just saying cars are puting out much more power then they were 15-25 years ago but gas milage hasn't changed.

You would have to bet crazy
 

You would have to bet crazy to put a metro engine in a insight. For eveyone reading this on the net don't do it. You would have more money then sense.

Quote:If you are driving at
 

Yep, I totally agree. I was just saying that I think also if you wanted to make more for less you could sleeve and stroke and engine and end up with the same size but more torque and prolly less horsepower.

In the mileage game, less is
 

In the mileage game, less is more.

You correctly point out that while the HP has increased, the gas mileage has not increased. It's also important to realize that the size of the car has increased dramatically. The mileage has not increased.

It has essentially stayed the same. Instead of putting technology into making the same old cars get better mileage, the technology is made to run bigger, more powerful cars at approx the same gas mileage.

It's a good thing, however, because it does show that technology is improving.

My 89 Civic has a 92 HP engine. It's plenty fast for me. My n600 has a 2 cylinder 4 stroke engine with (I believe) around ~30 HP. The Hawaiian version had ~40HP.

Most electric cars have a 10HP engine. 10HP is all that you really need.

Geo HP
 

Hey I think my 94 Geo has 54hp and my recent high speed run was 93.7mph and the gas pedal didn't do much from half to full throttle. Gearing in 5th at redline is 135mph so it is reving a little low. How much power can you use driving around at 25mph anyway? Now my xB has a much bigger frontal area and about 1000 lbs more weight (2450) with 106hp.

Quote:Gearing in 5th at
 

Matt, Dax, and I, as well as Lotec will all be gearing for 240 mph at redline in 5th pretty soon. :)

gearing
 

in the cabin scooter group they take the bigger gas scooters like the Helix and enclose them in an aero body - change the gearing taller and get outragious mpg on them.

My xB is turning 3000 at about 60 mph which is ok because of the added air drag but it is taking some getting used to at lower speeds NOT having to downshift at all when I used to have to in the Geo.

One funny thing about the Geo was you could beat on it and maybe loose a couple of MPG where with the xB you can drop 25% or 10mpg YEOW!

Still breaking in the xB and will be adding the oil treatment after the first oil change.

Is anyone in the group here a dealer for Xcel Plus??? and Why Not??

Wow, that gearing sucks.
 

Wow, that gearing sucks. Even my damn 4 speed auto is only at 2800. When I do the tranny swap I'll be at like 2100, :)

You become a dealer!

Quote:Is anyone in the group
 

I'm not a dealer of Xcel but i have used it. The biggest reason I'm not a dealer is for credibilty reasons. If I were a dealer, everything I said about the product would be suspect because everyone would think I was just trying to sell something.

Xcel Plus
 

Well I would think that a case of 12 would treat a lot of engines and there must be at least 12 in this group interested in it. Think bulk purchase. Wonder what the dealer price would be. Shipping is the PIA part however but USPS is about the lowest way if there is not a problem shipping a few ounces of PTFE in oil... Guys in other groups did bulk purchases of batteries and that seemed to work pretty well.

Quote:Wow, that gearing
 

Yeah but remember it is a minivan running a 1495cc engine and it's better to have a little more RPM to reduce drive train power pulses. That is one thing about the Geo I liked was the natural balance of the crank with 3 cylinders.

Xcel
 

Quotes from the Xcel web site:
------------------------------

How often do I have to reorder ?
In order to remain an XcelPlus Dealer you would have to purchase 3 cases of any XcelPlus products per year. You will be able to place your orders through a secured site.

--------------------

Can I buy one case of a product and get the same discount on a single product ?
No. As specified in our Dealer agreement, in order to give you the best pricing we must sell to our Dealers by the case. You would have to pay the retail price for a single unit.

--------

What is the Dealer Only discount?

Our "Dealer Only" discount pricing is approximately 30% off the listed retail price. XcelPlus holds our website customers to the same retail price as you do.


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Guess it will not work - you have to keep buying product and since it is a one time treatment you have to keep finding new customers and that is just plain MORE WORK.

True, but in the end I'm a
 

True, but in the end I'm a 1.5 4 banger also, I'm looking for a big mpg boost when I slap that thing in. *drool*

taller gearing
 

Don't expect that big an increase - you can simulate the effect by driving in a different gear which adds a little more drag but not too much. The Geo would get the same mpg if I lugged it or reved it with light throttle. Acutually it would get pretty much the same mileage at 50 or 70 mph which is weird.

Well, if I go solely based
 

Well, if I go solely based off of the fuel maps for my car the decrease would be rather large. They didn't put that transmission on the super mpg car for no reason. And besides that, auto to manual will net a good amount, so I'm expecting at least 5 city and mehbe 8 highway.

Quote:I had the stock Si
 

From honda-tech. My hf tranny will be much taller than the si, and prolly twice the difference than those two trannies he's comparing.