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-   -   Why aren't hybrids diesel rather than petrol? (https://www.fuelly.com/forums/f35/why-arent-hybrids-diesel-rather-than-petrol-17447.html)

Draigflag 05-06-2015 11:50 AM

Yes that's true, and the fact that the UK already has hundreds of free charge points all over the place. And yes, I did say free. Although wireless instant induction charging as per electric toothbrushes etc is just around the corner, so all these hybrids with wires hanging out will soon be outdated.

trollbait 05-07-2015 04:26 AM

Induction and other wireless charging will have more charge losses than the wire though. In addition to costing more.

Which is fine for a toothbrush or even a phone, but becomes quite measurable in the case of cars.

Draigflag 05-07-2015 06:13 AM

But it's likely to be the way charging cars is going, as it is at the minute, my nearest charge point is beyond reach of an Ev. A lot of people here don't even have a dedicated car parking space, nevermind a driveway/garage to make charging easy, so wireless/induction charging would be more convenient for more people and broaden the market a bit.

trollbait 05-07-2015 06:29 AM

Perhaps once a standard is settled on, and someone is found willing to pay it.

Based on announced partnerships, Toyota is going with magnetic resonance.

sealiedog 05-07-2015 08:00 AM

Hi folks,

In the UK the Outlander PHEV is selling really well. I just got one.I think the 2 big issues with diesel in hybrids are cost and weight. Also in Europe we are now being told that diesels are evil. That's after 20 years of being told we should all be driving diesel cars as they are better for the environment. Cities such as are Paris are now considering banning them.

It just goes to show that you cant believe what your government tells you!

Charon 05-07-2015 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trollbait (Post 183464)
The trend in Europe seems to be to skip over hybrids and go right to plugins. I think it has much to do with avoiding taxes and city congestion charges.

The part about avoiding taxes is the only reason Diesels are popular in the first place. Governments imposed high fuel taxes both directly and indirectly (in the form of CO2 or pollution taxes) and thus encouraged the NOx producing Diesels.

Draigflag 05-07-2015 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charon (Post 183531)
The part about avoiding taxes is the only reason Diesels are popular in the first place. Governments imposed high fuel taxes both directly and indirectly (in the form of CO2 or pollution taxes) and thus encouraged the NOx producing Diesels.

I'd like to know how many diesels you've owned and driven in your life Charon? There is far more than one reason why diesels are more popular in Europe, of which I've highlighted to you several times. You should try reading them, it will help you understand more and stop you repeating the same old fashioned biased comments ;)

Charon 05-08-2015 03:34 AM

I suppose it would be more accurate to say that the only reason diesels are popular any place involves fuel cost. Diesels are heavier and until recently noisier than gasoline engines for the same power output. Their advantage is that they burn less fuel, leading to lower costs unless Government gets involved with fuel tax. Whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, COST is the driver. Read your own posts about how much money you were going to save when you traded your Abarth for a Clio.

The aviation press is making a big deal about the first ever successful flight of a diesel-powered helicopter, and the only reason anyone is bothering is Government policies basically making aviation gasoline very expensive and in some places unavailable. The reason helicopters have not flown with diesel power in the past - too heavy for the power. That is the same reason airplanes and motorcycles do not use diesels.

By the way, I have owned only one diesel, a somewhat less than wonderful Renault. I have driven many, some military, some civilian, and only yesterday drove one professionally. My experience with the Renault turbodiesel, particularly in cold weather, tells me the putative savings with a diesel are not worth the trouble.

trollbait 05-08-2015 05:04 AM

Even the turbine powered helicopters are gasoline?

Charon 05-08-2015 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trollbait (Post 183550)
Even the turbine powered helicopters are gasoline?

No, they usually burn jet fuel, which is pretty similar to diesel. I talked with a LifeFlight helicopter pilot, and he told me the engines on their helicopters are rated for a few - perhaps ten - hours of operation on gasoline during a normal overhaul cycle. He said that was in case they had to refuel somewhere jet fuel was unavailable for some reason. The helicopters can also burn diesel. When burning gasoline the engine temperatures have to be watched a little more closely, as he said the turbine inlet temperatures ran higher on gasoline.

I should have been a little more clear in my post. Reciprocating engines - piston engines - in aircraft are used in the lower power regions, up to perhaps 300 horsepower per engine. They are gasoline engines because diesels are too heavy. Above that, turbines become "better." Turbines typically have much better power to weight ratios, but are also more expensive and less efficient. Turbines lose efficiency very rapidly at less than full power, but of course aircraft - especially helicopters - tend to operate at high power settings most of the time.


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