RV aka Camper Van or Motor Home to our European friends
 

Am starting to play with the idea of getting a recreational vehicle (RV).

Because RVs have awful aerodynamics and carry a lot of weight they get horrible MPG. To address those problems, I plan to convert a Toyota Sienna (most cargo space of all the mini-vans) into an RV.

Doing my own RV conversion allows me to control the weight of the retrofit, too. Instead of making cabinets with heavy wood, as most people do, I thought corrugated plastic sheets would be a smarter idea. My design goal is have the converted interior improvements weigh no more than the two back rows of passenger seats, which will be temporarily removed. Hence, the conversion should not impact the factory estimated MPG.

Besides getting 20+ MPG, with a mini-van I can Stealth Camp, too, which will save me $$$ with RV campground fees.

Many US cities have laws against sleeping in your vehicle. Stealth Camping is when you draw little attention to yourself when you park within city limits. Sleeping in a Sienna mini-van will draw little suspicion. If in a residential neighborhood and parked on the public street between two homes, each homeowner will likely think the other neighbor is entertaining an out-of-state visitor and will NOT call the cops about a suspicious vehicle. Cops patrolling the area will think the same.

Also, being smaller than a conventional RV, I can go down roads that an RV owner would fear.

Designing within the space confines is a fun, creative exercise. Having to consider all the necessary life support necessities for a journey, like water and cooking, is like designing your own Project Gemini.

Any thoughts on the subject?
Doug in Oakland, CA

Cool idea. Why not use corrugated cardboard for the cabinets? With a coat of pva it would be just as tough as plastic and weigh less, BMW use cardboard in one of thier cars to save weight, it's a lot sturdier than you think. No doubt cheaper too. For the frames, you could use balser wood, possibly the lightest wood you can get and strong if you use it properly. How about an inflatable mattress, can be deflated when not in use to save space and would be considerably lighter than a conventional spring/foam mattress. For the cooking equipment, consider using appliances and utensils designed for camping as these are lightweight, compact and designed to be carried too so are suitable in every aspect.

Thanks for the good ideas, DraigFlag.

I couldn't find any PVA cardboard on the internet. :(

Brilliant idea about balsa to use as frames. Hadn't figured that out yet.

Inflatable mattress? Yep. Great minds think alike. You must be a real handsome and a lady's man, too! ;)

When parked, I plan to have enough battery amperage to run an induction cooktop. When traveling down the road with the engine running, there should be enough alternator electricity converted to household current to power an electric pressure cooker.

Have you tried cooking with induction, DraigFlag? It's the same instant on/off heat control as gas, but it's 85% energy to heat efficient compared to gas being 35% energy efficient. No soot, too.

For now, I plan to install flooring 8 inches above the mini-van floor. There will be panels that I can lift open to reveal storage space below the elevated floor.

Instead of a heavy HDTV, I plan to have a 2kg projector with a pull down screen on the opposite wall.

Undecided if I want to install and carry the weight of a composting toilet, which I saw a glowing review on YouTube.

I suspect all these changes will weigh less than the two rows of seats that are temporarily removed, which will help improve the off the starting line MPG.

Can't do much about the weight of carrying water, though. I thought about inventing dehydrated water and reconstituting it on a as-needed basis. ;)

Balser or alternatively bamboo is very cheap light and super strong too, they use it as scaffolding in China, and as it's the fastest growing tree on the planet, it's green too. Yes I have induction hobs at home for cooking, like you say, you can buy small plug in ones to save space, and can store it when not in use. Good idea about the projector, have you seen the pocket sized ones? Same size as a smart phone and cost just over $100. With regards to the water, you could just buy it in bottles or fill up from a river when you arrive at your destination. At least you're not carrying it on board for the journey. Have you considered a solar panel? Perhaps if there's a sunroof you could locate it there so it's discreet.

You're right about bamboo growing fast; so fast you could swear you can see it grow before your own eyes! ;)

The projector I picked out (forget the brand/model) is probably about 6 times the volume of a smartphone.

Don't think there's anyway around with carrying about 5 gallons of water at 8 pounds per gallon, if I remember right. I doubt I'll be more than 2 days between refill access.

Solar panels, for sure. Thanks for reminding me to making them stealth-like, too. Since you can get solar panels quite thin, panels atop the dark paint of a mini-van would blend in; especially at night.

Anything else, DraigFlag? :)

ChewChewTrain,

I like your thinking.

Did you weigh the seats that you are taking out so you know what your target weight for the added equipment is? This should tell you if you have any space for carrying water or not.

With regard to the projector, i thought that they were quite power hungry. I'm sure you could get a small flat panel TV under the 2kg weight, maybe not?

Oliver.

There are micro HD projectors that are around a pound or so.

Weigh the seats yet? Nope. Haven't even seen the Sienna insides in person yet. Just picked the Sienna, because it provides 1 cubic foot more cargo space than the Honda Odyssey. Wanna take a guess how much the two back rows weigh? That reminds me, I'll simply ask one of the Sienna owners on Fuelly.com.

Your right. A small flat panel, in the grand scheme, really wouldn't add that much weight. And, it would be a lot cheaper than the $650 Infocus IN1146 projector.

Thanks for the observations/comments, Oliver! Doug in Oakland, CA

YES! They're quite small and light these days, but I'm concerned about the light output.

Found this terrific source of all types of projector reviews:

Top 10 Portable Projectors

Thanks, TrollBait! Doug in Oakland, CA

Google coroplast - more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coroplast

Discovered the 2nd row seats are 124 pounds. That weight is for seats that belong to a generation newer Sienna, but probably close enough for estimating the weight for our purposes.

I'm guessing the 3rd row, which is not normally removed, because they fold away into the floor, are, at least, 75 pounds.

That means, to keep the vehicle at it's factory weight, I have about 200 pounds of RV conversion to play with.

With DraigFlag's suggestion of an air mattress and making any cabinetry from corrugated card board, I think I can easily keep the RV conversion to under 200 pounds. This includes my 30 pound folding Mobiky bike.

Thanks, Janet! I'm quite surprised all the other RV conversions seen on YouTube still use heavy wood. How come they're not as smart as us? ;)

Just discovered the perfect solution for my RV bed; an air mattress that was originally designed for backpackers.

User reviews are excellent.

By getting the below model, I can fold in a way to provide a "sofa" back and seat cushion during my waking hours.

Lightweight Double Air Pad Â*Â*/Â*Â* ALPS Mountaineering

Keep up with your thoughts on this topic, everyone! It's helping a bunch. Doug in California. :)

In the absence of Sienna specific data, Honda Odyssey owners are reporting their 3rd row seats, which fold down into the floor like the Sienna, weigh 120 pounds. That gives my RV conversion a 244 pound budget.

With my 30lb folding bike, plus the 10lb backpacker air mattress, that still gives me another 204lbs. Should be easy to stay under that EVEN with my personal items.

Google pocket projectors Doug, I'm sure there's a handy one that will suit your needs, check the reviews of course! Are you going to strip any other interior parts? Carpets, plastic trim etc? If there's a spare wheel you could substitute it like most car manufacturers do now with a deflation kit instead. You could use the wheel well for storage then, and you'd save weight.

The pocket projectors at 0.4lbs don't throw enough light. The projector with a much brighter picture is well worth the extra 1.4lb.

Here's a great projector comparison website:

Top 10 Pico Projectors

Don't plan to strip the original parts at this time. That might be too radical, in case I decide to sell. Not looking to go crazy with chasing MPG by gutting the vehicle. Just don't want to ruin the original MPG.

I read the Sienna spare tire hangs under the mini-van. For my peace of mind, it can stay.

It's 3am-ish in the UK. Go to sleep, for gosh sakes, DraigFlag! :)

Really? What time zone are you looking at? We are only 5 or 6 hours ahead so it's actually 8.19 pm at the time of this post ;)

I'm in California, which is - 8 hours, Greenwich time. WAIT a second! That's right. I'm 8 BEHIND you. In other words, you're 8 hours ahead. I was subtracting. Yes. It is 8:22pm for you. Carry on. :)

You might want to measure the interior space yourself. The manufacturers don't all use the same method.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2014/0...dec9d3cfa052f7

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3747/1...e2072f37_b.jpg

Thanks, TrollBait! That was an eye opening article. Looks like the ONLY way to confirm the space is with a tape measure. I appreciate the heads-up. Thanks, again. - Doug :)

Just found out that some older, medium-sized RVs are getting 7mpg and newer, big bus-like RVs are getting 11mpg. I think I'm on the right track converting a Sienna minivan into an RV, which gets 20+mpg. I'm confident I can do even better than that, too.

I just googled the Sienna as we don't get it here. Looks similar to a Dodge/Chrysler minivan, we hired at least 4 of those in the US. For some reason minivans or MPVs don't sell well in this country. You could find a diesel one with a manual box maybe and get better mileage? A diesel would be better for idling too, if you wanted to charge the battery or put the cars heating on.

Thanks, DraigFlag. Speaking of diesel... Why do diesel truck drivers prefer to idle instead of shutting down their engines?

Diesels use very little fuel when idling, think of generators etc. My brother got stuck some snow last year for about 15 hours, van was running the entire time but the fuel gauge barely moved. Another reason why people who do alot of city commutes prefer diesels, so thier fuel costs don't rise during traffic jams and red light stops.

With old diesels, shutting down and then back up with a warm engine could result in difficulty starting, but that, like 3000 mile oil change intervals, is a thing of the past that people are just in the habit of doing.

With long haul trucks with a sleeper, the truck can be idling for heat, A/C, and power for the cabin. So trucks will have a more efficient generator for this purpose instead of wasting the fuel idling the huge engine of the truck. A Volvo announced a diesel powered fuel cell that they have been running to eventually replace the generator.

I have also heard that some recovery trucks and all emergency vehicles will leave engines running, this in case they won't start again. They are trading the small amount of fuel for safety.

I've always wondered about small delivery vans leaving their engines running as well, but if you think that a starter motor might have to start the engine 20-30 times a day, there is probably a trade off in the small amount of fuel used vs having to fit a new starter motor every couple of years.

This is where hybrids like the Prius come into their own when they start on battery power and then when the vehicle is rolling use a clutch to slowly turn the engine as well and when the engine is at normal running speed introduce the fuel to keep it running, this is one of the reasons that Priuses (?) last so long, the engines don't have to go through the stress normally associated with starting them up.

Oliver.

Bigger vehicles require greater amounts of fuel to start, so it's more efficient to leave them running too. Not the case with small passenger cars. You'll also notice cars with stop/start have larger starter motors (mine included) which during lab tests managed 175,000 starting procedures before wear was detected.

When I was driving a semi, they told us the engine burned about a gallon per hour idling. It was a 12.7 liter engine. Technically, it wasn't idling overnight. It would idle at its normal 650 rpm for about five minutes, then the computer would shut it down. To idle overnight (as mentioned, for lights, heat and or A/C) one used the cruise control to run the engine at 1000 rpm. I didn't leave the engine running when I filled the tanks or went inside to pay, eat, or shower, unless the weather was very cold and I was going to be out of the truck for several hours.

Interestingly, UPS drivers appear to be driving gas powered delivery trucks and I've never seen them leave their engines running; even for a quick drop off at my folk's home.

Even if they used diesel, UPS would likely have their drivers turn off the engine on stops. Just no technical reason to leave them idling anymore.