How would you respond?
A guy on honda-tech recently said about a user who wants to make a more fuel efficient car:
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The response would be
The response would be different for every person.
From my point of view he is right. Because I drive a nissan and me throwing money at it will only improve mpg very little. Now if you own an economical car that gets 40mpg and you throw some money at it and now it gets 60mpg then it's a worthwhile investment. Because the gas prices are going up and it will pay off. Either way you're getting bragging right, but with a gas guzzler you look like an idiot. Which is me. |
Using less is worth the
Using less is worth the cost, :)
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mileage is key
It's true that it wouldn't be cost effective if you don't drive a lot. However, if you're like a bunch of people on this site who drive 60, 70 miles or more a day, every little bit helps.
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I guess it's part right.
I guess it's part right. This is why I'm not rushing to buy a SuperMID and why I'm hesitant to do some FE things. I generally stick to the inexpensive things, like a few aero mods, a 5-speed conversion, etc. Some things are a lot more economical for me since I do all of my own work.
The same argument he makes can be made about building a fast car though. Throwing money into a car to make it fast is almost as fun as setting it on fire - I should know. I sunk about $10,000 into my 1992 Civic VX and in the end I blew the motor twice. Yeah, I parted out the car but may have gotten a total of $2,500 back from parts sales. From start (purchasing the car) to finish (blowing the motor a second time) only spanned about 2 years. At least with FE mods there is a net GAIN. Unless you're a sponsored race car driver winning events, there is no net gain (at least legally) to putting money into a car to go fast. Does this mean I never intend to build a fast car ever again? Certainly not! I thoroughly enjoyed the acceleration of my car, and am intent on building a better and faster one. I am, however, going into it knowing that I will be taking a net LOSS in exchange for some fun. |
HMMMMMMMM Have we been
HMMMMMMMM Have we been invaded by a stooge from Texaco-Chevron?
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Re: How would you respond?
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Average driver: 12,000 miles a year Starting MPG: 40 Modified MPG: 60 Average Gas Price: $2.00 Ok... all that being true, you're talking about the difference of $200 a year, as you use 100 less gallons (300 vs 200). But how about this... lets say you have a 10 useable gallon tank, which means you'll have to stop to fill up 10 more times that year. Now, I'm gunna take a little leap here, but I'm going to say that when you stop for gas, you're going to probably spend at least $5 to do so... this is time, extra wear on brakes, possibility you're gunna get some nachos, etc. that adds another $50 to the cost easily. So... REAL world difference, easily $250 a year... lets say we do that for 10 years... $2500... and if we had invested that money in some overseas mutual funds, I would expect to see around $6500 by the end of those 10 years. =) |
The best thing to do is
The best thing to do is learning to drive efficiently and drive less.
As for mods, I would not recomend spending hundreds of dollars to gain 1-2 mpg. Just keeping the car maintained is important. You can pickup used insights on ebay for under $10,000. So maybee they should by that insted on modding up the car. It all comes down to the miles to $$$ ratio. Bunger already set up the math problem (so i don't need to explain). |
Re: How would you respond?
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Everyone has a different definition of performance. Mine is different than most. My "hobby" requires little or no investment and will always have some return on investment. Off hand I can't think of any other hobby that you could say the same thing about. And one more thing to consider. In the event that gas becomes extremely expensive or downright impossible to buy (gas lines during the 70's oil embargo), I will be much better prepared than most others to deal with the situation. I also feel good I am trying to do my part to reduce our country's dependance on foriegn oil. Just my .02 |
Some want to show what can
Some want to show what can be done with modern off the shelf technology. They might want others to understand that the auto industry could be making cars that get high fuel efficiency that require no loss in performance, safety, size, or utility, and perhaps insignificant if any additional cost.
Take aeromods for instance. Most cars being sold now days still lack a bellypan, something the automakers could add to a car for well under $20, which would improve fuel economy an entire 1-2 mpg with absolutely no loss in performance or safety. Most of the expense in these modifications are incurred not because the components are expensive for a manufacturer to place into a car, but because they aren't placed into the car from the start during a mass production run and it is then left to the hobbyist to purchase, build, and/or install the parts themselves. They already paid beforehand for what the manufacturer placed into their car, when the manufacturer could just as easily swap out parts to improve the fuel economy. There are individuals on this site who have modified their cars to see 30-40% more fuel economy than their car achieved stock, often with improved acceleration performance and increased reliability. Why isn't the auto industry doing that? |
i wouldnt respond to that
i wouldnt respond to that thread because **to a degree** he is right.
buying cameras and lcd screens to replace the mirrors seems a bit unreasonable as well as the superMID, even though it is quite a potent indirect investment. other mods, such as the underbody tray, do have an associated cost, but in the long run definitely are useful in saving gas and reducing white noise, as well as increasing your mph at the end of the 1/4 mile. some people are in this for bragging rights, some for the eco system, and some because they are poor. the reseason(s) for modifying for fuel economy dictate which mods are made. |
Waiter, could you please
Waiter, could you please reseason this steak, it's a bit bland!
Go vegetarian power! |
Re: Waiter, could you please
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Re: Some want to show what can
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I've gotta wonder where these ideas get shot down inside GM / Ford / Honda... I can't believe that the engineers would be so shortsighted as to overlook a belly pan. |
Re: i wouldnt respond to that
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Just for a little perspective, here is what I've purchased for my car: This is a list of strictly MPG related stuff: new engine - $550 total ($200 shipping) new transmission - $110 total ($60 shipping) new ECU - $25 o2 sensor - $25 cat/downpipe - $20 VX rims/tires - $250 total New throwout bearing - $50 new timing belt - $30 new water pump - $40 then there are the costs of fixing up my car, including 3 new doors, a fender, a hood, new seats (front and back), new molding, new weather stripping (all the way around - not cheap), new window regulators (just arrived today!), new taillights, and of course replacing the head gasket last year which cost about a third of the price of the car. I also purchased paint, loads of primer, bondo, air tools, a HLVP paint gun, etc. I've spent the value of this car at least twice over. I will never get that money back. I also do it because I love it. The money pit that is my car is MY CAR. I've learned a lot and I'm working towards a goal. In the end racing for fuel economy is no different than racing for horse power. It's all a race towards a goal. There is no realistic ROI, but at least we have a better shot of a ROI than the guys who just bought the new Honda Civic Hybrid instead of the civic LX. I guess it's all about perspective in this case. For us it's a hobby, one which we love. i don't think you should ever expect to make money on your hobby. |
the new civic does feature a
the new civic does feature a rear belly deffuser. You don't really have to block the oil pan to put some aero mods in the front. I didn't.
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i'd tell him he is a
i'd tell him he is a complete tard *** for not spending his entire income on researching ways to better the worlds environmental crisis...
hi (insert wave here) people who dont believe in change for the better, i will always look down on... that kid thinks money is worth more than anything...his first mistake obviously he is young...etc the whole 'spend' attitude... it comes down to how much we lazy americans are going to allow a government to decide what economy means... pay your taxes or you are going to jail...even if you dont believe in your governments direction or actions hey...i just live here...is it illegal to watch too...??? to watch them ride off with your pride...fooling you into believing that these dollar bills which came from trees are worth more than the ground you stand on....because it was processed...and looks like something you can believe in...or something...??? try turning off your tv for a couple years...it will be the best thing you ever do in your life thats what i would tell him link me to the thread so i can... thanx oh i forgot...the government already 'owns' every inch of land from sea to shining sea... and they clearly know whats best for it... silly me wait until they try and shut off the solar system https://www.weatherwars.info/index.php?news_id=6&start=0&category_id=10&parent_ id=0&arcyear=&arcmonth= https://www.weatherwars.info/soho.htm you know it never ceases to amaze what you are and aren't willing to believe... |
Re: i'd tell him he is a
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Bleh keep it short, hypermiling is a number you cannot BUY EVER, all skill ;) |
i cant wait to buy a 90mpg
i cant wait to buy a 90mpg engine in a junkyard for $750
i guess thats relativity for ya |
Quote:Are you vegetarian
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Re: Quote:Are you vegetarian
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Ever thought of going vegan?
Ever thought of going vegan? I might once I get to dartmouth since the options will be abundant. I don't think I could make the change right now.
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Re: Ever thought of going vegan?
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I could never do it guys.
I
I could never do it guys.
I try to keep my freezer stocked with venison though, as it's an extremely lean meat and much better for you than beef. |
Well... Y'know the summer
Well... Y'know the summer gas crunch? When demand supposedly rises enough to increase fuel costs. What is the actual Percentage of increased demand? 5%, 10%, or 15%?
Hmmm, wiith almost free mods to my truck at one point (slight aero's with duct tape, tire pressure, driving habits) i had gone from averaging 18mpg to a best of 21 not trying to AVERAGING 22-23 with a best of 24.5... So if we take the average of the first 'average' (sounds funny) you get a number just under 20 so i'll say 20. And the next number could easily be just 22. I'm trying to be totally fair, instead of saying that i went from 18 to 24.5 even though i guess i could, but anyway. Getting 2mpg better for me from 20 to 22 is a 10% gain! And that was with barely any physical modifications, i had already been running an MSD 6a and an open element K&N and an easier breathing muffler before i started so those don't count. Honestly i believe the best all around 'mod' is to drive easier in the city and slower on the freeway. Simple. Better mileage, easier on the car, and safer. But back to the 'costs' of modding. It is very near sighted to look at it the way the traitor did. oops, did i wright that. I'm in no position to purchase another vehicle so i do what i can with what i have. And if by doing next to nothing i can improve 10% then if we could spread the word, we're talking about a lot less gas everyone uses, IF you can get the word out, and if A LOT of people make some simple changes, we could see fuel demand slow or drop and possibly fuel costs drop. Of course, the above is a very long term scenario but it is possible. We saw the reverse at the begginning of the SUV craze, more BIG vehicles with horrible mileage and less anything better in the mpg category, heck a full size sedan would have been a huge upgrade in most cases, same goes for a van or wagon. For me, it's kinda a game, impresses others sometimes (okay rarely) but if i can get someone else to think about out and so forth and so on, not only are we doing something good for the enviornment, we might also help everyone out in the pocketbook as well. Oh yeah, workers on the Sun??? |
workers NEAR the sun
workers NEAR the sun
any idea how big that thing would have to be to show up like that...? |
Re: Well... Y'know the summer
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i thought about becoming a vegitarian because i am a bit of a health nut, but i decided that beef tenderloin once a month is just too hard to give up. what else would i drink my reds with?? i could NEVER be vegan. sushi/sashimi is just too amazing! Quote:
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Re: Well... Y'know the summer
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Quote:I've begun posting my
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Re: Well... Y'know the summer
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Let me just say...I do not
Let me just say...I do not eat fish. I am a vegetarian. I am not a pescatarian, if I ate fish, that is what I would be. So, vegan is more about animal products and less about animals.
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Quote:some people are in
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1)Saving $$$ 2)Bragging Rights 3)Save the planet and all the eco stuff |
lol right on about the
lol right on about the sushi, although i'm jealous on the veggies guys because they don't get the dieseases associated with meat ;( I tried pure veggie stuff once, some stuff is good but its tough to find the good stuff that satisfies a meat eater.
Also I find people can't drive economically because one they don't know how. I realize its much harder for a normal person than people like us equipped with the knowledge and facts. Try getting some random guy to drive efficently and you'll see what I mean, unless that person is actually very serious (I haven't found one person in real life that went, "Wow you save gas? ME TOO!" Instead I get the, "LOL" go figures.) I'd brag about my mileage but imo 35 mpg is not good enough for my books.. espically when I've been getting that for the past 2 years or so ;( Indeed old habits are hard to break, |
Quote:I'd brag about my
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I was talking to my friend
I was talking to my friend the other day, and she asked me what my mpg was on the crx, so I said lifetime, 35, and she was like, the escape hybrid (ford suv hybrid) gets 37.
Damnnation! |
Re: I was talking to my friend
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That's using the what the
That's using the what the car actually gets in regular driving convention, ;)
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I still don't get how making
I still don't get how making your car go faster saves you money, or pays for it's self, what is the advantage of having a car that goes faster the the leagle speed limit? for trips around town I've been useing my Honda CB100, as best as I can figure it's getting around 100mpg, tops out at around 60mph with me on it, it's both peppy, and gets ok mileage, and I don't need to worry about speeding tickets.
I do it for the chalange, and to save money, I would rather invest my money not burn it, burning money is not a chalange, it doesn't teach me anything, it doesn't use any imagination, I am lazy, I like the idea of getting something out of almost nothing, of pushing the peek efficentcy, of taking a car, and making it go as far as possible on as little as possible, for as many years as possible. My old car I had my mileage drop for a few tanks from 42.5 to 38mpg, a friend pointed out that 38mpg "is still great mileage" I pointed out that in 400 mile trip I'm loosing a gallon of fuel, gone, lost, no gain, fill a milk jug with gas, $2.65 or whatever it costs, and toss it out the window, that is the 4mpg drop in a 400 mile trip. If I wan the thrill of going fast, I'll go flying, or hop on a motorcycle, or a tobogan, or a bicycle, or zip line, I understand that there is a thrill of spending $10,000 on a car just so it will go fast, but how is it going to pay for it's self? |
Re: I was talking to my friend
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yup all city, hwy is easy to get high mileage. City is where the real's fun is at. |
Re: I was talking to my friend
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