Have you ever wanted to by a SUV
 

Basicaly my whole life I have liked smalls cars. I never wanted to get a big car because they are harder to move in traffic and park. I guess I am a bit strange, I remember when I was little (6th grade) thinking that a metro was the coolest car because it was so small.

Anyways my dad previously owned a grand caravan and I miss the space it had.
When I had to buy 4X8 sheets of plywood it would hold then with no problem. Some SUVs have way less room in them then you would think. I have used a toyota land cruiser and there is not much room in the back. I think all the room went into the wheels and suspenion.

kickflipjr -

I used to like the design of the Jeep Grand Cherokee, but really only in truck form. Does that count? This was probably the early 1990's, so the word SUV hadn't quite reached the mainstream. As a design, I like the previous generation Toyota Rav-4, but I have never seriously considered getting one. I would only give them a chance if I lived in the boonies.

I've always loved small cars too. The first generation CRX and Civic Hatchback were fantastic to in my mind and broke ALL design rules in their time. Very bold. I used to have pictures of them on my walls with C-Thru plastic overlays of how I would trick them out. I still have an original article on them from when they cam out. I might scan/post it here sometime.

CarloSW2

I just recently purchased a bunch of 4x8 sheets of dryway to finish my basement. instead of trying to get them home in my civic, I just rent a uhaul van for a day ($20) and drive them all home.

I figure that $20 once a month is much cheaper than $500/mo for a car payment and $300/mo for gas.

I always wanted a mid eighties 1 ton diesel chevy... maybe a suburban if they came with that payload rating. 25mpg@55mph in a 4000+lb vehicle with the aerodyanmic profile of a brick is pretty nice.

I've never been interested in SUVs, though I was glad my brother has a Tacoma v6 on the weekend when I needed to take a boat cradle on a trailer down the highway to another marina.

But he uses it to commute 200 km a day, and the cost is brutal. He's been asking me about aero mods.

What about roof racks, people? You can move large things on small cars as long as they're not heavy, and they're well secured. You'd be surprised at what stuff I've carried on the Flea or my old Accord.

Excellent point. I've considered getting a roof rack for the Fit just in case the entire car is full. I'm thinking of getting a trailer hitch and one of those small "pod" trailers for road trips.

I've been looking around to see if I can find a Metro or Swift with a roof rack so I can see how they attach it. Then I'll build one to hold my canoe.

I have one of those little Harbor Freight $200 trailers that I tow with my Swift. It's very light and hauls my PPC pretty well.

Q

SUVs
 

I've always been a small-car person. I recall having driven an SUV for the first time, and just thought it was like a pickup truck with luxury stuff. It made no sense to drive a clunky, truck-like vehicle when something cheaper, more comfortable, and more efficient is available. My parents had a '93 Pathfinder for a while and I despised that darn thing (so did my Mom). I had to drive it when my Civic was being repaired, after being rear-ended badly.

Even the newer "Cross-Overs" like the Nissan Murano / Infiniti FX-35, Ford Freestyle, Toyota Highlander, etc. drive like their size would indicate, and aren't terribly appealing, IMHO.

For me (aside from FE), a very important feature to a car is its handling -- so small cars tend to win there.

RH77

The vehicle I had before I got my first Saturn was a Durango.:o I bought it in Janurary of '99 when gas prices were low.(mid $.80"s) I got it mostly for the generous amounts of "sky-poop" that we get during the winter months. It had the 3rd row seat so it got used a bunch when a lot of people were going to the same place. My wife got rear ended in it one day and I was glad she was driving that instead of my Neon. The guy that hit her was driving a smaller Toyota(Tercel?) and it was totaled. The Durango was virtually untouched because the other car hit the trailer hitch pretty squarely. The trailer hitch was basically an extension of the frame rails so it was very solid. Except for that brief lapse of judgement:p I have usually owned smaller cars. '71 AMC Hornet, '73 Hornet hatchback, '76 Pacer, '76 Hornet, '83 Reliant, '87 Horizon, and '95, '96, and '00 Neons.

I'm curious -- how did that work out? I like the collection of AMCs, though!

RH77

theclencher -

Yes, the articles were from me, and the $3 per gallon is something I have also been saying for *years*. I don't want us to be insulated from gas prices. If we had been paying European prices all this time, we would have lots of high MPG cars in the USA and big investment in our passenger/freight railway system.

If I had become president of the USA in 2000, this is what I would have done. I would have created a "penny per month" increase in the Gas Tax. This would mean that the cost of gas would be gauranteed to rise by 48 cents over 4 years. That money would go to alternative energy and/or drivetrain reseach. Where applicable, that would in turn be patented and given "for free" to automobile companies. Preference would be given to car companies that employ lots af Americans. Only truck drivers would be eligible for some refund on the gas tax (i.e. writeoffs as part of their tax returns).

This way, the economy would not suffer price-shocks. Instead, the gradual increase would spur innovation to "change our ways".

Of course, doing this would have made me a one-termer, ;) .

CarloSW2

I only had it for about two years. It blew the head gasket or developed a cracked head and I traded it on the '87 Horizon.
I forgot about two other AMC's. Between the Reliant and the Horizon I had a '67 American. I also had an '83 Eagle at around the same time as the Horizon. My grandpa always had some sort of AMC car when I was growing up and my dad had a mid '60's Ambassador sedan, an AMC station wagon of some kind, and a Gremlin.

Bhg
 

Back in college, a friend had a K-car Wagon that ended up blowing a head gasket -- luckily it was during the end of the school year (kinda figured that yours met the same demise). I bet the Horizon was a great car. So how did the family take it when AMC/Jeep was bought-out by Chrysler?

RH77

Yeah, it was a tough little car. It had just over 139,000 miles on it when I traded it on the '95 Neon. It didn't use a drop of oil between oil changes and I changed it every 5,000 miles. Also, I bet the crap out of it on a regular basis. Twice, I had it over 120 mph. I was racing a friend with a Daytona turbo and, at the time, I was pulling away from him(he was just playing with me) and he said his speedo was registering right around 125.:eek: I wasn't quite as diligent about FE at the time.:o

No.......I hate SUV's, and always will hate SUV's. I wish they did not exist in the USA. Nothing to like about a SUV.
I have purchased small hatchbacks over the years.
1973 Chevy Vega HB, 1978 VW Rabbit HB, 1991 Honda Civic HB, 1991 Honda CRX HB, 2007 Toyota Yaris HB. All with manual transmissions.

I learned to drive in Germany where most of the cars were small and have always appreciated the light nimble-ness of a small car. My first car (in the mid 70's)was a 68 VW beetle that usually gave me 34mpg at a time when Ford and Chevy were touting their 24mpg (on the highway) Pinto and Vega.

The station wagon enters here, more room than most utes, and the economy is better. My last wagon, a Gen III Camry with auto and 5S-FE motor returned 32-35 (best ever) on highway driving. I have carried pre-hung doors, windows, OSB, studs etc back from the store, and the best was an all day drive with an entire Alfa Romeo GTV drivetrain from Ohio to Tennessee. No mileage loss and a cold 12 pack of Amstel for doing it more than offset any fuel loss. Steering was a bit light tho, and the spare was tied to the roof to prevent digging it out in case of a flat.

Clever idea about the spare. Welcome to the site. You should do a "hello" thread in the intro forum and tell us a bit about yourself.

I have a preference for small sports cars and usually despise SUVs.

There is one exception: I do have an intention to build this *****in' apocalypse truck. Thinking of an 80s model Chevy S10 or Dodge Ram, building a ****load of aeromods for it(rear skirts, grill block, aeroshell, ect.), armoring it up with kevlar, mounting guns on it, and building it into a B100/electric hybrid using a 300+ HP diesel, 29 UB121100 AGM batteries, WarP 11" DC motor, and a Zilla 2k controller. The diesel would be connected on a common shaft with the electric motor. This would have the advantage of being able to use either powertrain alone or BOTH diesel and electric powertrains to run the vehicle in unison. Perhaps 600 horsepower would be able to reach the wheels, and the WarP 11" has a redline of about 4,000 rpm, similar to a diesel engine.

Imagine it, with aeromods, ~150 miles all-electric range at 60 mph, a diesel engine that could maintain it at a steady 150 mph by its self, 0-60 mph < 5 seconds, stump-pulling torque from the electric motor and diesel in unison, a top speed over 180 with the right gearing using both drives in tandem, and running the diesel engine on long trips, easily over 35 mpg. It would handle like a shopping cart though. Give it a 30 gallon tank for over 1,000 miles range on diesel by its self, plus the all-electric range. With all of that on board, it would weigh in the neighborhood of 5,500-6,000 pounds. It would be a real match made in hell! No LRR tires for this beast, give it big studded tires. It would need one hell of a bellypan to smooth out its exposed axels once the ride height was lifted to meet the needs of offroad conditions.

The 'aeroshell' over the truck bed would be designed to be retractable, wherein two sloping walls would be installed on the sides of the truck bed with a retractable piece of metal that can be pulled down when nothing large is being hauled in the bed, and opened up when the bed is needed. Install a camera system on the rear so that no mirrors are needed, and allow the mounted guns to be pivoted so that they can be turned and fired electronically while driving.

Paintjob? Camoflauge! It has to look its part.

It would be a very heavy, very aero, alternative fueled truck armed to the teeth that could go offroad. It would have torque out the ***.

It would be the ultimate Mad Max truck, and probably not road legal. But the idea is very amusing, just to own sonmething of this nature. :D

I've driven a few SUV's and have been disapointed in how little they could carry, and how unsafe they felt.
my first vehicle (a "gift") was a ford econoline van, and it was more then enough to convince me to get the smallest car possible, that if I needed to haul that much that renting a U-haul would be the best idea.
Of course with a hatch back you can carry "anything" we used to have a 4 door VW rabbit that we fit two adults, us three kids, a wind generator head in the trunk, and the (50 foot?) tower on the roof rack, then drove a few hours to deliver it, in the same rabbit we fit 2 people, and 5 new windows for our house, in my civic hatch back I've fit tools, camping gear, and food for a week, a co-worker and my self every week for an entire summer while building a straw house out in the middle of no where, I've also fit my full size futon matris in the back of my hatch back, and I helped two friends move from colorado, to montana with my CRX, 3 of us, and most of their stuff in a two seaterl, I've never had problems carrying bags of cement, or lumber, round wood fence posts, or anything else I've wanted to haul in my car, altho when I've barrowed SUV's to haul lumber or other stuff, I've had an extreamly hard time making it fit, and found them dificult to drive/manuver, hard to see out of, and had an overall unsafe feeling.

As ive said b4 I had a Holden Jackaroo (Isuzu trooper) 2.8l turbo deee-zal (is this a SUV) 4X4.
I dont recomend anyone to get a car like this unless used for its designed purpose.
Back in my old home towen I used to do community work , much of which involved driving out to remore australian places., and a LOT of it was real 4 wheel drive area.

The places that didnt require 4 wheels used were ususaly still so rough that a normal car would trear itself apart with 6 months.
So for me ..the Trooper was great.
A top vehicle ..got 10L per 100km but it was big and heavy.

A few times I got a bit stuck with the two diagonal wheels spinning in free air with the belly pan touching the top of a mound.(and this thing had huge ground clearances)

So out you get and start winching. :D

The city 4X4 owners you see that havent even got dust on their paint work are complete knobs.

I have taken Volvos on worse roads (or lack of roads) than what 99.99999999% of Utes will ever see.

A Volvo will go through a foot of water, but watch out, the clutch slips and hope your door gakets are good.

Personally, I've always been in the small car camp. The biggest car I've owned was the Passat wagon I just sold, and it got an overall average of ~32 mpg w/o modifications (peak of 39.2 mpg on trips).

I think some SUV owners are all about "conspicuous consumption." An infinitesimal minority have any need whatsoever for their ostentatious waste. They're also ALWAYS the first vehicles I see in a ditch at the first snowfall each Winter.

I don't even see much use for 4WD or AWD except for towing something up a slippery hill, or for getting oneself out of a ditch. Of course they do have the ability to get you so far off the road that by the time you finally do get stuck, you have to wait til spring before you can get towed out. :)

As for carrying large items, I make extensive use of wagons and their roof racks. If an item is too big for the wagon, I have it delivered or I rent a truck. In the meantime, I try to stay out of ditches. ;)

I've always wanted a large vehicle, but never an SUV. I do a ton of work around the house, so I need a transport vehicle for the materials. Plus I need to tow my Civic. I first bought a Nissan Frontier v6, thinking a small truck with just enough power would be perfect. It still sucked down gas, and if it was raining, I had to wait till another day to transport whatever I needed to transport. So I traded for my Odyssey. It has been an amazing vehicle. It tows better than my truck did because it weighs quite a bit more and has quite a bit more torque. The gas milage is nearly double what I got in the truck though. Minivans ftw!! Oh be ready to take a lot of crap from people if you buy one though. Apparently all minivan owners are "whipped" or "gay".

True , the bigger they are the harder they fall too.

I used to live on a farm , and my driveway way 2 miles of dirt road.
The ground had lot of clay in the dirt , so when it rain it used to get real muddy.
Across my driveway ran a little stream that only came when it rained.
It was only about 1 foot across and an inch or so deep so you would never worry about it ..RITE ?
I am not one of the racer guys in their 4X4's , I used to just plod along.
So one evening I was coming down my driveway ,,maybe only going walking speed I hit this wet patch and WOOOOSH ,, straight off the road into a ditch.

Zero traction and the mass carried me quite some distance into the scub before a big mound of dirt stopped me.

Slides can be scarey at the best of times , and ones happening at snail speed are equally not fun at all.

My friends made heaps of fun of me ?how can you slide of the road in a 4X4 at walking speed ??

I loved the '59 Chevys, with the big wings. An old saying we had back when I was a teenager.....slip and slide with Powerglide.......it is a 2 speed automatic in 1959?
My '55, '56, and '57 Chevys all had the Powerglide transmission. :cool:

Nomad
 

Did anyone have the Chevy Nomad? --Probably the earliest high-performance "crossover".

RH77

My wife had a Nomad once. She wrecked it,,, like all the others. Her 1st husband was a body, paint and frame man. Now hes wet brained and in prison.

As for SUV's. Never really liked them. I have to admit when we were car shoping the last for the wife. We did look at CRV's and Elements. Wife thought they were to big and nasty. So she took a Accord.

Now me on the other hand love small and very large cars. I have a soft spot for huge cars to be honest. Huge Chryslers and Ford products from the 60's with big blocks to be exact. I love those interstate sleds every bit as much as the smaller thrifty cars. I truly wish I had went ahead and purchased a Marauder when they were in production.

I grew up with a '59 chevy as well. It had a 3-on-the-tree. :cool:

:thumbup:

I have one of those as well... and I have INSANE plans for making it into a 30 mpg cruiser!

https://www.rareads.com/scans/2487.jpg

https://webpages.marshall.edu/~baksh2/gp5.jpg

my 86 jeep, it counts as a SUV :) no idea what kind of mileage it gets it doesn't have a calibrated speedometer and the gas gauge doesn't work. with detroit lockers and 5.38 gears and 35 inch tires it gets maybe 10-20 mpg depending on if I try and make it go over 45mph.

don't drive it much anymore because it usually only makes it about 5,000 miles before the engine blows. I have put 7 engines, 3 transmissions, 3 steering boxes, 2 rear diffs in it in the 5 years I tried using it as a daily driver. 30k miles total before it retired to occasional use. I also currently own a 78 Triumph spitfire, 80 Camaro, 1994 mustang, Manta Montage kit car, 2002 Camaro, 93 Metro, Cat D4 dozer, and 81 suzuki GN 400 bike. Gotta love a big garage.

It must get great MPG !!! , when it gets pulled along with that string I see coming from the front.

Oh man, You play rough. I hope you get your engines cheap! :)

BTW, they might last longer if you put oil in them instead of mud (j/k). :D

So did the winch get you out of that hole? It kinda reminds me of the time a bunch of guys I know were fording a stream with an old military jeep. The water was running a little too fast and the jeep just rolled down the stream bed. When it stopped rolling, they just righted it and drove it away! :)

in that picture we started out backing into that hole to get enough traction to pull the guy in front of us out of the hole he was stuck in. Since it pulled down on the front it stuck the transfer case skid plate down like 8 inches into the clay and got seriously stuck. Took us forever to get it free.

As far as engine life I figure it is an engine not known for reliability to start with AMC 150 4 cyl. add a 4 speed transmission with no overdrive and 5.38:1 gears. It turns 3200rpm at 55mph. Also those engines were not made to rev they were supposed to be driven at like 2500rpm or so normally. Stock was 2100 rpm at 55 I think. The engine in it now should last longer since I put a 5 speed transmission in last time I blew the trans. Either way I got tired of working on it so now I drive it maybe 250 miles a year mostly off road or using it for working around the house.

https://webpages.marshall.edu/~baksh2/gp2.jpghttps://webpages.marshall.edu/~baksh2/jeep.jpg

well good news on reuters today
ford reported a huge loss this quarter
:)

looks like they are looking to sell off the sub-companies
jaguar,rover and the big uk aston martin...
and buyout 50% of their detroit workers by 2007
ouch...yay

molecule -

I like that they're getting rid of the luxury car segments, but I hope this doesn't cancel William McDonough's cradle to cradle factory in River Rouge, Michigan :

https://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?sect...le&storyid=380
https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4843708/
https://www.worldchanging.com/archives/001387.html

CarloSW2

Actually, they do know how.

Put into a search engine "Opel Eco Speedster". 160 mph top speed, .20 drag coefficient, 15 square foot frontal area, 97 US mpg combined.

They just don't want to do it. In the 1990s, we could have had 80 mpg midsize cars like the "GM Precept", "Ford Prodigy", and the "Dodge Intrepid ESX2", all of which did 0-60 mph ~11 seconds and were roughly as large as a Ford Taurus. Most of the economy gain came not from their hybrid drive, but from their clean aerodynamics.

Another idea of mine is to build a dune buggy with an aero body similar to the modified Ford Model T metrompg posted. It would be open-wheeled, have a thin, tapered body, weigh < 1,500 pounds, and be fitted with a 300+ horsepower turbodiesel that runs on B100. No LRR tires for this beast, it would use studded or spiked tires for offroad capability. With a sufficiently aero body, it would get over 50 mpg on a smooth highway. Maybe much more. Give it a 30 gallon tank for some serious range.

Don't think this is possible?

From EV World.com:

https://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?sect...e&storyid=1116

https://www.evworld.com/images/biodiesel_willys.jpg

PHOTO CAPTION: Buried under the bullet-like hood of recreation of a classic 1941 Willy's pickup is a 6.5 liter, 350hp, twin-turbo diesel engine that runs on biodiesel fuel and gets an estimated 38 mpg. Photo courtesy of Institute of Ecolonomics and Ecosense Solutions.

The above truck has the aerodynamics of a brick and these also weighed over 3,000 pounds. Imagine what a dune buggy with half the weight and much better aero would return under similar driving conditions with that engine.

It would be a vulgar little thing...

The Ford Cyclone is one of my favorites. You could fit like 15 dead hookers in that trunk!

At any given time, I can never figure out what to do with more than 6 dead hookers .

Dude, you just made me snort rum through my nose, and it burns!

Sorry to make you waste perfectly good rum that way. ;)