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CO ZX2 11-14-2006 12:58 PM

ZX2 Front Fender Skirts Completed and Results. 3/15/07
 
Day 1. Front Skirts. Above photos show some of the work we've been doing to put front skirts on Old Reliable ZX2. First pic is the look I would like to have. May take a while.

Prototype. Just something to test the possibilities. I drove 150 miles 11/21/06 with this (one side only) on my car. Did OK but made of too light material. This was on the car when I made a 103 MPG run on that day. Terrific side wind, never thought I'd make 100+ MPG this day.

11/22/06. Got going in earnest with heavier material (.060 solid plastic wall sheeting) from Home Depot. Pic above shows white bumper I tried, was pretty good but too low. The old bumper provided material. Other material was junk truck inner tubes, free from a tire store. The wedge inserts are inner tube rubber and allow the wheel to turn as the rubber stretches.

The window well cover I tried for a while. I believe it actually helped but was too ugly, too big and too wide.

My wife Virginia, helped me with both the recent skirts. She sews and lets me talk her into weird projects. She sewed the rubber inserts into the plastic.

Day 2. Front Skirts. I put one of the new skirts on the car this morning and have driven around the block. Works great, steers good and stays on. I will give it a bigger test tomorrow, but actually turning corners is what I really am pleased with. I will put up more pics tomorrow of the construction process.

OK, more pics. First pic is a more substantial model than first prototype. The lighter material I used on the prototype was flimsy, 12mil, and allowed air to push the skirt into the wheel at speed. This pic I used the same material as I had used for the rear skirts (.060 solid plastic). This plastic is fairly stiff but still somewhat flexible. I also made the rubber inserts larger and relocated them to better match the tire positions.

Pic 2. Shows layout and rubber taped to plastic for sewing. We stretched the rubber flat before taping, then marked the sew lines. We left the plastic in one piece till the sewing was done then trimmed at the rubber inserts. Cardboard is my crude guide for the layout. I held it and had Virginia turn the wheel to the extremes and marked the cardboard.

Pic 3. Virginia sewing the rubber inserts to the plastic. We had to curl and tape one end of the plastic to fit under the sewing machine arm. Really stiff stuff. Glad she has this heavy duty machine.

Pic 4. This is a pic after I had driven about 75 miles of mountain highway to Denver and back. No problems at all. Just like it was when I left except for the dust. I drove 8 miles of road construction and 8 more gravel road to home. I forgot to take the pic when I got home so went out at 3 AM this morning and took it in the dark. More info at the end of this tread in a reply to The Toecutter I made last night. More to come.

Day 3. Front Skirts. 12/05/06. Still have only one skirt on, can't make up my mind but getting closer to what I want. I drove about 100 miles in slush and snow with the skirt in the newest pic. This is gonna work! I will post more pics and info of my attachment methods later. CO ZX2

Day 4. Front Skirts. 12/29/06. As you can see we have been buried in snow here for over a month. Got my newest skirt part way on (see newest pic). Have driven over 200 miles in slush and snow to test durability. Does fine. I am putting up a chart I found on contribution to drag. Be back when I get more done.

Day 5. Front Skirts. 03/15/07. Actually, over 4 months since I started this project. The extended winter weather has allowed me time to get this going. Just completed the right side, had been testing and re-re-re-re-doing left side only, trying to make it better.

First trip I made with both sides on, I made 20 MPG more than the best FE I ever had on this run of 33 miles. Weather conditions were similar to those on my referenced previous best run. Coasting is where I really can tell a big difference. Speeds are up at every reference point. I find I have to brake often in places I never braked before. On 2 lane roads I detect no buffeting when meeting big tractor-trailers. This is one of the first benefits I noticed. I sure could feel them before.

I believe the skirts are having a positive effect on my Intake Air Temp and Water Temp. It is easier to keep up in an efficient range. My intake air box is located near the left fenderwell and is getting more engine heated air rather than cold air from around the fenderwell. I am sure this is a part of the gain I have realized.

I have also redone my lower engine compartment pan. I had cardboard that had gotten wet and was falling apart. I replaced that with the 1/16 solid plastic that I have used in other places. I extended the pan from the front bumper to the front of the front tires. Sealed completely on the front and sides. This also has contributed to engine and air warming.

I hope this is of some help to anyone that entertains the thought of trying it. I can and will provide the attachment methods I used if there is interest. Just let me know. I will be here. Discussion?? CO ZX2

P.S. New easier methods. No sewing. 2 days, not 4 months.

Day 1 photos
https://aycu18.webshots.com/image/857...0797926_rs.jpg
Day 2 photos
https://aycu01.webshots.com/image/624...5087068_rs.jpg
Day 3 photo
https://aycu09.webshots.com/image/828...4695926_rs.jpg
Day 4 photo
https://aycu29.webshots.com/image/810...9851220_rs.jpg
Day 5 photo
https://aycu33.webshots.com/image/118...2766299_rs.jpg
Day 4 chart
https://aycu17.webshots.com/image/781...3057371_rs.jpg

I am a recent member of GasSavers. My car is a 1999 Ford ZX2. This is my first post. Not quite sure exactly how to do this, but here goes. . . .

I have been perusing GasSavers for a couple months gleaning ideas and info. I am impressed by the knowledge and willingness to share it that I have seen displayed here. What a deal! I want to thank GasSavers members for the help and inspiration they have provided me.

I have looked at a lot of similar sites and nowhere else have I seen the knowledge and genuine interest shown here.

It snowed here in Colorado yesterday and again today so I have had time to enter my Garage info and update my gas log. Take a look.

Looking forward to visiting with you.

MetroMPG 11-14-2006 01:03 PM

Hey, welcome to the site! (Hope you don't mind I moved the post over to the "Intro" section.

I looked at your screen name and thought: "look, there's carbon monoxide ZX2. Wonder what that means."

You're turning in some amazing FE numbers, and you've done some good mods to the car.

I suspect the useful info flow will be 2-way!

CO ZX2 11-14-2006 01:08 PM

How do I??
 
Thanks for the welcome.

How do I place my car pic and info to the left of post similar to yours?

CO ZX2

MetroMPG 11-14-2006 01:11 PM

Go into your UserCP and click Edit Avatar . You can upload one there.

cfg83 11-14-2006 01:51 PM

CO ZX2 -

Utterly amazing FE! My Dad has a ZX2 5 speed manual, so I am extra interested in all the things you have done. Can you describe your driving style and your driving context (hills, flats, traffic mix, etc ...)?

CarloSW2

kickflipjr 11-14-2006 02:59 PM

99% over epa!!!! Amazing.

MetroMPG 11-14-2006 03:01 PM

I especially like the jump from 49 to 60 mpg in your gas log. Attributable to getting the SG2. Nice work :)

https://www.gassavers.org/gaslog/chart.php?id=239

CO ZX2 11-14-2006 04:08 PM

[QUOTE=cfg83]CO ZX2




Utterly amazing FE! My Dad has a ZX2 5 speed manual, so I am extra interested in all the things you have done. Can you describe your driving style and your driving context (hills, flats, traffic mix, etc ...)?



Thanks for the comments. I will try to be as helpful as other GasSaver members have been to me. No secrets here!

I live at 10,000 ft. in the mountains of Colorado. Lots of mountains and hills, quite a bit of flatland here and there. I do a lot of Engine Off Coasting, only thing is every hill I go down, I have to get back up.

Traffic not too bad, even in the semi-large towns in my area. Occasionally I need to go to Denver 75 miles away. You can do well for FE in the city if you do the common things like timing stoplights, coasting when you can, use your brakes as if you had none. I very seldom drive over 70, I usually try to stay around 65 max.

Any other specific questions, just ask. CO ZX2

CO ZX2 11-14-2006 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickflipjr
99% over epa!!!! Amazing.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I'm amazed too. Never thought I'd amaze anyone.

We have owned this car for 4 years and 43 mpg was the best FE measured till a month and a half ago. I about fell over the first 50+ tank I got. Two days later I went back to the same station, same pump, where I had filled and topped off to try and verify if I had gotten the tank full. I had driven 46 miles and put in .9 gal.--51.1 mpg. Good enough for me.

I have tried a lot of things, the success are noted in my Garage & Gas Log. I never dreamed I could make this sort of improvement.

I have driven near 5000 miles since Sept. 27, the day I got my first 50+ tank. My FE for these miles is now 53.25.

CO ZX2 11-14-2006 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG
I especially like the jump from 49 to 60 mpg in your gas log. Attributable to getting the SG2. Nice work :)

https://www.gassavers.org/gaslog/chart.php?id=239

Would you agree that ScanGauge will make a better and a different driver of anyone who uses it? Even if you thought you were doing everything right.

CO ZX2 11-14-2006 05:09 PM

Not many of us(Ford guys)around HERE, is there?

I agree with you on small fillups, I just don't do that anymore at all. ScanGauge has been a great help to me, I don't have to particularly worry about a completely full tank. My exasperation with trying to get consistent fills is over. SG2 picks up the metering pulse from the ECU and tells me my fuel consumption.

MetroMPG 11-14-2006 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO ZX2
Would you agree that ScanGauge will make a better and a different driver of anyone who uses it? Even if you thought you were doing everything right.

Yep, I would agree. There are very few people who can get stellar mileage without FE feedback (basjoos being a notable exception).

As an example, in my car when driving with load, the slightest change in throttle position - one that is absolutely imperceptible through the butt-ometer - can cause the computer to shift to a different area on the fuel map, and mileage can change by many MPG on the instantaneous screen.

Without seeing it "live" on the SG, it would be impossible to know for sure that you're on the very edge of optimal FE.

That's just one example.

Personally, the SG is more of a benefit to me not for the instantaneous screen (I tend to use TRIP CURRENT avg most), but because it turns driving into a game, and that keeps me motivated.

The Toecutter 11-14-2006 09:23 PM

I love your aeromods. They go with the car's shape very well. Can't wait to see the final ones when you have the finish just right.

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 03:38 AM

lovely??
 
Thank you very much. Nobody has ever said anything like that to me about this car. At least now I don't have to wear a ski mask when I drive. I can't believe all the ugly junk I have had pasted on this car in the last couple months. Especially when my cardboard got soggy. I was going to put up a pic of when it was really really really ugly but haven't figured out how.

What do you drive?

MetroMPG 11-15-2006 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO ZX2
I was going to put up a pic of when it was really really really ugly but haven't figured out how.

If you want, you can post images "inline" (ie not attachments) so they show up in your posts by using a site like https://imageshack.us . You don't even need to register to upload the image, and it gives you the code to paste in the message.

MetroMPG 11-15-2006 04:41 AM

PS - those front wheel skirts look a lot like the aero modded XFi's:

https://1989geometro.com/images/car2.jpg

I'd suspect the increased frontal area would offset the gains of that approach though.

The way to go with front skirts is using hinges (see basjoos "civic aerodynamics" thread - it's linked from the "GS Bookmarks" link in my sig) or flexible material like the Probe V concept.

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG
If you want, you can post images "inline" (ie not attachments) so they show up in your posts by using a site like https://imageshack.us . You don't even need to register to upload the image, and it gives you the code to paste in the message.

Thanks, Metro. I will try this out on you now. CO ZX2

lovemysan 11-15-2006 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO ZX2
Thanks, Metro. I will try this out on you now. CO ZX2

https://aycu39.webshots.com/image/675...8384277_rs.jpg


Thats hot!

With your current setup how hot is your car running. Does it overheat when driven "normally"

GasSavers_DaX 11-15-2006 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG
PS - those front wheel skirts look a lot like the aero modded XFi's:

https://1989geometro.com/images/car2.jpg

That's wild looking! Is it a 1 passenger vehicle - a chopped down XFi?

MetroMPG 11-15-2006 07:30 AM

Yup it's a chopped XFi - now a tandem. More info:

https://www.metrompg.com/posts/xfi-aero-car.htm

https://www.gassavers.org/showthread....4883#post14883

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 08:16 AM

I do not have the full front or the front wheel skirts on now. Window well covers were much too big and wider than needed. I thought about cutting them down and just using the part of the bubble required for the wheel to turn. Have not done that yet. Current mods shown in my Garage.

I never had heating problems with any mods. My car has always ran cool. This moved it up into the mid range on the gauge.

psyshack 11-15-2006 06:32 PM

Its amazing what your getting out of that Z. Seeing that motor is tuned for the big end/ high rpms. Its truly a near bullet proof little mill.

I'm not a fan of front wheel fender skirts at all. To make them one has to basically widen the cars frontal area which is a basic no no when cd is looked at. I do think for a daily driver front fender well defusers make since.

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyshack
Its amazing what your getting out of that Z. Seeing that motor is tuned for the big end/ high rpms. Its truly a near bullet proof little mill.

I'm not a fan of front wheel fender skirts at all. To make them one has to basically widen the cars frontal area which is a basic no no when cd is looked at. I do think for a daily driver front fender well defusers make since.

Thanks for the comments.

I have been pleasantly surprised by my results considering the reported torque range of this engine. I believe the variable cam timing has a huge effect on low end torque. Some day I may try a few runs at 75-80 MPH which would put the engine in the torque range intended for it.

I am working on a front fender skirt arrangement that will be movable enough to let the wheel turn but have no gaps front or rear of the wheel when turning. It will also be parallel to the side of the car adding no frontal area except minimally when turning.

SVOboy 11-15-2006 07:26 PM

Didn't the EV1 have some sort of flexible membrane like thing?

The Toecutter 11-15-2006 07:30 PM

The EV1 didn't have front wheel skirts. The Ford Probe V had a flexible front membrane for its front wheel skirts. It had a .137 Cd.

MetroMPG 11-15-2006 07:32 PM

I think it was the Probe V that had the membrane.

Yeah, it's mentioned here:
https://www.scottgrundfor.com/concept/1985probe.html

https://www.scottgrundfor.com/concept...concept1_t.jpg

FormulaTwo 11-15-2006 09:12 PM

got to love the interior on that ford probe V.
muahaha

Welcome to the site CO zx2

hmmm, cardboard
I think you and metrompg share the same fetish

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclencher
How would that be constructed?

Hopefully I will be able to show it to you soon. Would like to see it work before I get too excited about it.

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy
Didn't the EV1 have some sort of flexible membrane like thing?

Good to hear from you. Have read a lot of your comments in the couple months I have been around GasSavers. With your chipping abilities, could I ask you a couple questions sometime?

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Toecutter
The EV1 didn't have front wheel skirts. The Ford Probe V had a flexible front membrane for its front wheel skirts. It had a .137 Cd.

Wow!!! You are quite the authority. Glad you are here.

I have pics of Ford Probes and knew that it had front fender skirts(covers). I figured they just built enough space inside for the wheel to turn. I had never read enough about the car to really know a lot of details. Maybe I could have saved myself a lot of thinking.

How can a dummy, spending practically nothing, with no design experience, hope to come up with something on which Ford probably spent more money than I will see in my lifetime???

Anyway, I may be driving my version down the highway soon. I don't know if the Probes ever got that far along.

Thanks again for the info. CO ZX2

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG
I think it was the Probe V that had the membrane.

Yeah, it's mentioned here:
https://www.scottgrundfor.com/concept/1985probe.html

https://www.scottgrundfor.com/concept...concept1_t.jpg

Metro, thanks for the link. Do you know of any more detailed info than what is shown there?? I have searched for the last few minutes and came up with nothing. Ford.com has no info at all on the Probe concepts. Please read my reply to Toecutter about this. CO ZX2

CO ZX2 11-15-2006 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormulaTwo
got to love the interior on that ford probe V.
muahaha

Welcome to the site CO zx2

hmmm, cardboard
I think you and metrompg share the same fetish

Appreciate the welcome.

Fetich. Is that something to eat??

Be nice to me and Metro. Some of us just don't have time to do it perfect right now.

You could have built your bumper cover in 5 minutes with free cardboard and duct tape, using none of those expensive pop rivets. By the way, I used the same Home Depot edging as you on my front.

Seriously, you are doing very well with your car. It's clean, it looks nice, it don't get soggy in the rain and you got me beat for gas mileage.

Come back soon.

FormulaTwo 11-16-2006 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO ZX2
Appreciate the welcome.

Be nice to me and Metro. Some of us just don't have time to do it perfect right now.

You could have built your bumper cover in 5 minutes with free cardboard and duct tape, using none of those expensive pop rivets. By the way, I used the same Home Depot edging as you on my front.

Seriously, you are doing very well with your car. It's clean, it looks nice, it don't get soggy in the rain and you got me beat for gas mileage.

Come back soon.

Yeah I completely understand where you are coming from with time. my bumper is in no way perfect. Although it came cheap, almost free. Those expensive pop rivets are available at my work, the metal came from a friend who just remodeled his house. I think the only thing i spent money on was spray paint :) So i dished out the big bucks on $5 high heat engine paint.

I actually did start out with cardboard on the bumper. Covering the 2 side openings, but it did not last long. I also tried coroplast.

I appreciate the comments on the egg.

As far as having you beat. I definitely think you are on the way to showing me up!

onegammyleg 11-23-2006 09:18 PM

Is it your goal to have the highest post number but with the least amount of words ?
10 posts that say the same thing , I think its spam. :thumbdown:

The Toecutter 11-23-2006 10:54 PM

While one post would be sufficient, I must say his idea is quite crafty. I'm very glad that he's shared it with us. I estimate a 4-6% improvement from them.

CO ZX2 11-24-2006 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onegammyleg
Is it your goal to have the highest post number but with the least amount of words ?
10 posts that say the same thing , I think its spam. :thumbdown:

RE: multiple posts

I am truly sorry for displaying my ignorance with these multiple posts. I am far from being as experienced as I would like to be on this subject. This thread is the first that I have ever attempted and I'm trying to learn proper procedures. But I have no excuse. I hate spam as much as anyone. Rest assured, I will not do this again. I appreciate everyone who views my posts and hope they can find a little forgiveness in their hearts.
Sincerely, CO ZX2

The Toecutter 11-24-2006 12:22 PM

I figured you may be new to posting on the internet. It's no big deal. Just get a feel for proper internet etiquette and people will generally not insult you.

I can't wait to see if those front skirts work in real highway driving conditions, and if they do, how well they work. They look vulnerable to being torn off by your tires, but the way you set them up may help prevent this. The fact that you were able to drive around the block with them on is encouraging.

CO ZX2 11-24-2006 05:05 PM

Toecutter:
I drove to Denver today with abundance of twists and turns. I had one of my heavier material skirts on today. Didn't get the other one finished but needed to go for supplies. I could tell a difference right away in the coasting distance at spots I remember from previous trips. I have been that trip twice in the last 2 weeks and got MPG of 85.9 and 86.4. My car has had no substantial changes since then except the skirt. Today in town at the same spot as before ScanGauge II read 117 MPG. Sounds impossible for 1 skirt to produce that much. Even though I like it, I will have to do more testing just to be sure.

Tomorrow I may try one of the runs I did within the last few days with just the one skirt. I have fairly consistent recent averages for those runs. Then I will get the other side done and go again. It surely got me fired up to complete the other side.

Just got home. Tonight I am going to post more pics.

CO ZX2 11-25-2006 02:59 AM

Day 2, Front Skirts, new pics and info on Page 1 of this Thread.

basjoos 11-25-2006 06:06 AM

The Ford Probe V had an inner fender that turned with the wheel. It was this inner fender that pressed out against the flexible urethane skirt when the wheel was turned. Flexible urethane sheet is very expensive and have no idea of its durablilty in real world driving conditions.


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