A RAV4 to go with the Prius?
 

As I mentioned earlier, my wife is looking for a new car. Her main complaint about the Prius is that there is only seating for 5. Even though we have 4 in our family, she wants more seats to accommodate the kids friends and the in laws when they visit.

My thoughts were for a Camry CE or Accord DX. I love the look of the new Camry but we are not considering the TCH because the cost is too high. When Toyota says that HSD is a $2000 adder, that is looking at it with rose colored glasses. The TCH lists for over 26k while the Camry CE can be had for less than 21k. I'm not interested in all of the fancy options that come standard with the TCH so for me, the HSD premium is over 5k. Since my wife would be driving it only 30 miles per day, it would take a long time for the payback, if ever.

But the Camry doesn't solve the 5 seat issue. She had looked at Highlanders awhile back but they are way out of our price range and the FE sucks, even on the 2WD. But then I noticed that the RAV4 had optional 3rd row seating, 7 seats in all. So I headed over to the Toyota dealership in Raliegh for a test drive.

The RAV 4 is very nice! I drove the base model 2wd 4 cylinder, 17" alloy wheels and 3rd row seating and was very impressed. Weighing in at 3300 lbs, I didn't feel that I was driving a pig. The 24/30 EPA estimate was also a pleasant surprise. With it's 0.33Cd, I wouldn't be surprised to see 35MPG on the highway at 60 MPH or so. The salesman quoted me $500 over dealer invoice, $22,700. Out the door with tax and other fees was $23,865, only $100 more than what I paid for the Prius 3 years ago. I can live with that.

So perhaps a compromise is in the works. I'm headed back to Pittsburgh tomorrow morning. Maybe over the weekend we will go for a test drive.

On another note, I wasn't able to test drive a TCH because they didn't have one. They are flying off the lot. The Prius was a different story. They had 15 or so in every color. If someone is looking for a Prius, I know where you can get one.

There was another discussion on this, would you consider the Mazda5? I think the FE is close to that of the Rav4.

Hey, at least you are not looking at a Tahoe or a Suburban like several of the people I work with.

At 24/30, the RAV 4 has 15% better FE than the 21/26 Mazda 5. That is too much of a penalty for me. But thanks for the heads up. I didn't even think of looking at the M5 until you mentioned it.

Yes, we have already had that discussion. It didn't work.... Evidently I just don't understand and there is no use in trying to explain further. The fact that I have moved her away from the Highlander and toward the RAV 4 is quite an accomplishment. If it were up to me we would get an HCH II or another Prius.

A successful marriage involves give and take. I am giving this year so i can take in 2010 when the Toyota Diesel Hybrid becomes available. All part of my master plan.:D

Don't fault the TCH when it comes close to the base Camry XLE package in standard equipment. When compaired to the same equipped Camry, their estimates are in-line. You're compairing apples, to oranges, so fault yourself. :rolleyes:
AFA the rav4 VS the Highlander. The highlander/Lexus RX get's it's redesign shortly as it's Camry platform based which just entered it's 6th generation in March. The Highlander is a bigger, better vehicle. You'll never be happy with a 2az-fe powered rav4. I don't care of this is the slow *** driving forum. Buy the 2gr-fe v6. It gets the same economy out of the box, and yet it has more than 3 times the powerband at one point.

Personally... Wait 6 months, when the new base Highlander with the 3.5L 2gr-fe v6 option when it comes out. You need room, and the rav4 will never deliver like the Highlander will, being based off the much larger modified Camry platform.

Hey can you get the Rav4 in stick? We looked at the Mazda 5, but the mileage turned me off as well. I didn't know the Rav4 had an optional 3rd row...

Interesting, a SUV with a better MPG than a minivan (and the Five is amon the best), and they both (4cyl, 2WD) weigh the same at around 3400 pounds, making the Rav 4 more efficient on top of better MPG.

The only catch with the Rav 4 is it appears you are stuck with an automatic, you can get a manual on the Mazda5.

Why no honda crv? You can still get them in stick, eh?

It has to be an auto because it's for my wife and that is what she wants. The CRV doesn't have 3rd row seating.

But I don't want the Camry XLE, I want the Camry CE in a hybrid. Actually, after having driven the Camry today, I don't want a Camry at all. I was disappointed.

"You'll never be happy with a 2az-fe powered rav4. I don't care of this is the slow *** driving forum"

Obviously you don't know me very well. I was very satisfied with the 2az-fe powered RAV4. And, it fits within my budget. The Highlander is way too expensive.

Sounds to me like someone is buying a Rav! Based on your wife's criteria and your budget/fuel economy desires, I can't think of another car that would do it. The only way to get a more FE car instead would be for your wife to change what she wants, and you and I both know it ain't gonna happen ;).

At this point I'd say cut the best deal you can and continue to enjoy a happy marriage. It should be a good car, and it should hold its value well.

I would choose a rav 4 over the mazda. Toyota has legendary reliability.

Me and my cousin tet drove the new rav 4 when it came out. It accelarated like a dog. Now the new camry is a different animal. The v6 with no options is so cool. It rips like a bull with steroids. Too bad you are looking for a 7 passenger vehicle.

We went and looked at both today. We are in the same boat, needing a 6 passenger vehicle and the Jetta wagon isn't going to cut it.

First keep in mind we haven't driven either yet. The Mazda5 was WAY easier to get in and out of in the back since it has a sliding door it opens wider. And it has a space between the middle two bucket seats that the kids could easily walk thought to get to the far back row of seat, a big plus.

The Rav4 and Highlander you had to either crawl over the middle row to get to the back or you can somehow flip the middle row of seat forward but there wasn't much space to squeeze in there and with car seat in the middle row they won't flip forward. Not an issue one they are out of the baby seats, but that’s 4-5 years away.

I just know I am going to like the Toyota driving and handling better though.

Thanks everyone for your input!

We went car shopping yesterday. We started at Honda where we looked at a few Accords, the Civic LX and CRV. The Accord "Value Package" was the most attractive of the lot because of the price, $19500. The Civic was too small for her taste. None could carry more than 5 passengers.

The we went accross the street to Ford. We sat inside the Escape Hybrid and the first comment she made was that she felt like she was in a truck. I said, that's because you are in a truck! She was not happy with the interior styling either. I talked to the salesman about price and he wasn't willing to go below 25k. We left without a test drive.

Then we went to Toyota and test drove a Camry LE. Very sharp looking car with a great interior. She liked it except that it only had 5 seats. I test drove it and found it to be dissappointing. I guess I expected a smoother 4cyl, it seemed buzzy to me. The ride was great but uninspiring. Then we looked at the RAV 4. She really liked the interior and we both tested out the 2nd and 3rd row seats. Yes, they are cramped, but our kids are 50 lbs each and they were quite happy back there. They also liked the fact that they could each have thier own row. The test drive was great. I found that the engine seemed smoother than the Camry, but maybe that is just my imagination. It does have slightly more torque and HP than the Camry which might be the difference. So it looks like we will be getting the RAV 4. When compared to the Accord at 24/34 and the Camry at 24/33, the RAV 4 at 24/30 seems like a small FE sacrifice for the extra utility.

Where's Rondo? Haha!!

https://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/25/k...-and-reviewed/

Weird, Kia making a vehicle with good FE, they have always been way down there on teh list. They also claim better mileage with a V6 comapred to teh I4, very weird indeed.

Yup, and they never brought the Kia Pride (Festiva) five door to the states.

https://www.top-autobazar.cz/gallery/...-autobazar.jpg

In 1990 or so, in the UK you could get them with white wall tires, just the thing for pensioners as Skodas jumped in price with the fall of the wall......

BTW, you could trade the badges on the Kia or Ford with Wolseley ones, no joke....:D

Picked up the RAV4 yesterday. The whole family is very satisfied so far. What was surprising is that it much quieter in the inside than the Prius was. It also has electric steering which has a better feel than the Prius.

There were two other pleasant surprises. I checked the max pressure on the 225/65/17 Yokohama G91's and it was 44 PSI. First thing I did when I got home was to press them up from 30 to 45 PSI. And as always, I read the owners manual thoroughly. Here is what it said about the oil:

"SAE 5W-20 or 0W-20 engine oil may be used. However, SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather".

After about 1500 miles of break-in, I will be adding Mobil 1 0W-20.:)

Oh yea, her name is "Paradox"

You will have to put her in your garage, I am really intrested in the MPG numbers since we might be moving to this same vehicle next spring.

Hmm, if you want a rear seat (7) gotta get the V6? Not enough power?

Hmm, 2,2l worked in the Voyager in 1984.......

Very happy so far with the Rav 4. We had a weekend trip to the beach and turned in some impressive numbers. I filled up Thursday evening and brought her home with 38.x on the SG. The wife drove from Raliegh to Fayetteville with the kids and pup and picked me up at work at 5PM. The SG showed 33.x. On the segment from Fayetteville to Myrtle Beach, I drove and scored 34.5 for the 113 mile drive. Then 50 miles around town over the weekend at 32 MPG. Finnally, on the trip back to Fayetteville to pick up the Prius, I managed 37.4! Slight tailwind and 55-60 MPH speeds. We will be taking the RAV 4 to Pitt this weekend and I am going to try to keep the speed down to 65. Hoping for 30+.

How does SG comapre to actual pump mpgs? I like the sounds of these numbers. I really don't want to buy the Mazda 5 ;)

At the first fill, the SG was over by about 3% or 1 MPG high. I went through the fillup procedure and adjusted the gallons to match what was pumped. The numbers reported for the weekend trip were after calibration so I assume that they are correct. I will be filling it up tomorrow. I will let you know if the calibration requires a further tweak.

Perhaps one of the reasons for the exceptional FE is the final drive ratio. At 60 MPH, the rpm's are only 2150.

Cool. That's one of the many things I think is great about augmenting the ICE with an electric motor: torque and less dependency on the ICE's low end range. Is there ever a mode in the Prius that uses only the ICE?

Actually, I was speaking of the RAV 4. The Prius RPM's are much lower, around 1500 rpm at 60 MPH.

I find it difficult to explain exactly how things work between the ICE and motor, but I will give it a try anyway. The motor can propel the car with the ICE off up to about 41 MPH. At that point the motor has reached it's maximum safe RPM (around 8000 prm I think). Above 41, the ICE will begin rotating but may or may not consume fuel. When the ICE begins to rotate, the speed of the motor drops dramatically (power split) and the motor can continue to power the car from the battery. There are times when the display shows no power moving from the battery to the wheels. This is sometimes referred to as deadband. This would be the mode that you are referring to. Most of the time power is shown pulsing in and out of the battery.

SG showed 29.5 MPG , 12.9 gallons. Gallons pumped was 13.43. I went thru the fillup sequence and the SG is now set to -9% down from -3%. I'm not at all impressed with the SG. It seems to be all over the place. So take 6% off of the numbers quoted above. Still, not too bad. We are on the road starting tomorrow with the RAV 4. Hopefully the calibration is nailed down now and I can still get a 33 MPG tank.

Great info, thx.

The drive to Pitt thru the mountains took it's toll. 28.5 MPG for 530 miles with CC set to 65. Temps were lower 40'sF and I had a 10 MPH headwind.

The trip back was much better. The temps were about 5F lower than the trip up and the winds to begin with were 10-15 MPH sidewinds. For the first 300 miles I managed 30.1 MPG at 65 using DWL instead of Cruise Control. When I filled up at Wytheville, VA I noticed that the sun came out and the winds has changed to a 5-10 MPH tailwind. I rode that tailwind and a -1700ft elevation delta to a 34.9 MPG for the next 225 miles. Not a bad start to that tank. Tomorrow it's off to the beach where I would expect to hold onto the lower 30's.

:thumbup: for an SUV that's not alllll that bad. Now just slap an EV drivetrain in there...

Still prety darn good. I didn't realise the third row was an addition.

Third row seating option is $950. But you have to also get the $560 17" alloy wheels/tires. Still it has been worth it. The wheels are sweet looking and we are hauling around 4 adults and 2 children quite comfortably here at the beach.

In the latest Consumers Reports, they test drive the Mazda CX-7. Seems nice but much more expensive than I expected. The major complaint was turbo lag. The CR observed FE for the CX-7 was 18 while the base RAV 4 was 23. That is a huge difference IMHO.