hf civic swap almost stalls when cold
 

I have a 91 hf hatch, and from a cold start it doesn't like higher gears. For example, when I shift into 3rd @ 25mph, 4th @ 30mph, and 5th @ 35mph it starts making the sound like the gear is too high. It makes the sputtering that would otherwise come before a car bucks and stalls. Once the engine gets up to temp I can once again shift into 5th @ 30mph as usual. This behavior is only present when the engine is cold, and only for a few minutes.

The car makes another sound, and only for the first few minutes. It is a chirping sound everytime I upshift into a gear high enough to make the engine sputter. It is a high pitch cyclical sound that cycles once every second or so, and itr sounds like it is something rotating. input bearing? throwout? It sounds like it is coming from the tranny maybe, and is there without the clutch depressed, not sure about if it is there with the clutch in...i'll check. ideas?

Anyone else have any idea?

I get a distinctive "clunk" in my '85 Si when I shift at low RPMS (1.5k and below) and the car bucks a bit. My guess is an axle on it's way out. Turning seems to make the sound pop louder, haven't been able to tell yet. It's usually a 1-2 or 2-3 shift, as the speeds are lower and my gear ratios are very short compared to your HF gearing. My other guess is w/ theclencher, bad mounts make for some odd noises. Two-part urethane liquid mix or energy suspension inserts clear that up. Hope that helps, Mak

Yeah, that clunk, if it's the same one as when you go around turns sounds like one of your cv joints. My sound is not that, but one of my boots doeas have a crack :D

5th gear at 35mph??? you have an HF, I'm pretty sure that is even slightly higher gearing then my VX, and if that is the case, my VX, going 35mph in 5th gear the engine is turning 1,000rpm, fast idle should have two stages, around 1,500, and around 1,100-1,200, then drop down to around 750-800rpm when fully warmed up, my guess for your poor running is that you are taking a cold engine, and trying to ask it to give you alot of torqe at a lower speed then it is trying to idle at.
You have a car that is already geared really high, it's designed so that at highway speeds in 5th gear the engine is turning close to 1,000rpm slower then nearly every other car on the road, the practice that others on here have of going 35mph in 5th might work well for them because their engine is still turning 1/3rd faster in the same gear.

Oh, ok that sounds good, but what do you mean by this part? Are you saying that their cars behave differently than mine?

yes, I meen that other peoples cars are going to behave differtnly then your's, my car is geared simaler to yours, and it doesn't like driving at 35mph in 5th gear at all, no matter what the weather, or how warm the engine is because going that slow in a gear that high lugs the engine, and pulls the engine speed down near to the idle speed, your HF is geared for eccomy already, a bunch of people on here don't have cars that are geared like that, so when they drive at low speeds they shift in to a higher gear, please take a look at: https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=2290 and notice how peoples engine speed varries while going the same speed in the same gear you have an efficent car, and are driving it like you have a less efficent car in hopes of gaining effcentcy, and have taken it to far.

In all fairness, I have the same transmission as his and I drive mine like he does, but I don't experience these problems at all.

Perhaps the b1 is getting tired?

In all fairness Ben, there are only 83k on the b1, and it acts like a new engine in any other context. Glad to see you settled in at school, and looks like you've met your match. :)

Ah, true, I forgot the old lady thing with the car.

Mehbe it's just too weak then, it's only got 70 hp. We need an HF'r to compare with.

Thanks for the kind words, Frank-o, it's a fun time.

update on my "clunk". It now seems to be coming from the driver's side shock, possibly the axle. Everytime I run over uneven road it makes this noise, turning doesn't seem to matter much, although I hear it sometimes when I press in the clutch to slow to a stop...it also appears that side axle is occasionally rubbing something (clean lines/grooves vs. the rest of the dirty ol' axle) maybe the LCA? If only I could hire a englis-speaking trained gremlin w/ an earpiece to ride underneath my car as I drive it along patchy country back roads then I could get on w/ my grill block! Mak

I am driving an 89 wagovan, which is functionally similar to a DX. The problem your having is largely just because your engine is cold and your loading it up pretty heavily, because of the HF gearing. If your going to run in higher gear's at those low speed's, at best you have to be extremely light on the gas pedal and even at that, if your rpm's get to low, your going to get buck, kick and snort, which isn't good for anything.

I'd just run it in a lower gear until it's warmed up and take it very easy on the throttle. I've got a tach on my car and I've been really surprized at how low I can go on the rpm, before it start's to balk. It will however balk, at some point. Essentially it's a question of asking for to much torgue from the engine, at to low of an engine speed. The engine put's out varying torgue, as the engine turns and the pistons go up and down. At higher rpm's, it is running fast enough it doesn't show up as noticable. At lower rpm's and higher throttle position, it start's to complain.:o

Mak: Does it make the sound more when your accelerating or slowing down, or is it more when your going over bump's. If it's bump's, your shock or attachment are probably getting loose. If it's when accelerating or decelerating, then it's probably the lower control arm bushing's. In either case, it doesn't sound like it's the halfshaft.:o

I had this same problem

It is your throttle position sensor!!!!!

you probably dont need a new one, you probably just need to adjust it

formulatwo, you think I should adjust MY tps?

It happens either way, at almost any decent speed (constant or otherwise), but bumps and dips aggravate it. I checked the axle-to-LCA clearance yesterday to make sure it was good and noticed my driver's side shock tower has something defintely amiss. Instead of being in the center and low, it's skewed heavily to the front and appears higher than the other side. What causes/remedies this? I'll take a pic sometime. Mak

the other main differnce between what SVOboy has, and what you have, is that he is running MPFI and you are running DPFI, or throttle body injection, correct? and you have to remember that a cold engine is going to run richer, and when you lug an engine it further enriches the mix, and if you have an old engine that is in need of a tune up, less the perfect spark plugs, or a dirty injector, you might be lugging your car to the point that it is spitting raw fuel out the tail pipe.

ryland, thanks for your input. you think the dpfi is causing the lugging and/or you think it will contribute to higher fuel consumption with a cold engine?

No, driving 35mph in 5th with an HF tranny is causeing the lugging, and the DPFI isn't helping to cover it up as well as MPFI would in an engine that has lousey low end tourqe.
Throttle body injection is a reasonably crude form of fuel injection, the throttle body on your car looks sort of like a carburator would, only it has two big fuel injectors on the side of it insted of lots of little brass jets inside like a carburator, I've only worked on one a little, and my shop manual for it is still on lone... so I can't look up exactly how it works, but from what I know about honda fuel injection (and fuel injection in general) when the engine is cold it will enrichen the air fuel mix as much as 8:1 (ideal 14.2:1 or something close to that) but then you also have a fuel presure regulator that is controled by engine vaccum, so when you step on the accelorator pedal and manifold vaccum increases it rases the fuel presure to the injector, alowing it to inject more fuel, you also have a throttle possision sensor (TPS) that can tell that you pressed the accelarator pedal down, and tells the injector to stay open even longer, and the engine isn't warmed up, so the o2 sensor is most likely not operatating yet (is it even a two wire o2 sensor?) so the computer controling the fuel injection is just running it's preset programing as to how the engine should be running.
so when you add an engine like that to a transmision that is desined for an engine with a more complex fuel injection system, and more low end tourqe, I'm rather suprized that you are having as few problems as you are, if I were you I would try running a tank where you are driving 35mph in 3rd gear, 40-45mph in 4th, and wait untill you are going 50-55mph to shift in to 5th, (unless you have something like a very long flat or slight down hill slope) and I'm going to bet that you see your car not only running better, but that your mileage goes up as well.

does sound crude. :o makes me want a z1 with mpfi. :cool: i will run that tank next week! ;)

you are right, the o2 is a 1 wire! :D

hills really do suck with my setup. I always have to put it in a lower gear, and on steep hills i sometimes have to put it in 1st if i dont get enough momentum!

another thing I realized might make it run even richer, but I'm a bit unsure about, when your engine is cold it also bumps your idle speed up, and at 35mph in 5th gear, you are trying to force your engine to run slower then it wants to idle, so that might make the fuel injection controles freak out a bit more as it trys to compensate, there is a chance that your fuel injection is dumping enough fuel in that it's coming close to flooding, altho I don't think I've heard of someone managing to flood a fuel injected engine.

Mak: On your car, I believe that between the top of the shock and the inner fender is a bracket which mounts to the inner fender, from the bottom. It typically has a hole in the middle, that the top of the shock goes through and then has a lock nut on the top, inside the engine compartment. The bracket has a bearing assembly built into it, and it sounds to me like something in that assembly is failing. You can buy replacements at the auto parts store. I think if you open your hood and look at the shock mount on the drivers side, it is probably loose/ worn out. Good luck! (not a big issue to fix!):)

sho' nuff Gary, it's literally oscillating around in there, apparently from cutting a deep rut in the bushing from I assume years of me taking on-ramps at 50 mph (I don't speed but occasionally throw a hard corner just to feel the go-cart push). Really, the shocks look very old but are still rebounding fine, but the mount gave up. I have some spare GR-2's sitting in my carport building, could swap them in...but who has the time? And with a tranny swap on the way? I'll let you know how it goes...Thanks, Mak