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red91sit 02-10-2007 10:28 AM

Lincoln Aerodynamics (BAD)
 
So, i was thinking of ways to improve my cars aerodynamics, I came up with a little drawing of some plans, but before i go about trying to implement them, I was wondering if anyone would like to share their ideas of how to make it better. The idea for the new nose came after driving after it snowed. The snow didnt' stay attached past the nose, it went straight up from the front of the car.

The idea for the nose is from the old Dodge Daytona's and Superbirds. They were aslo very un aerodynamic to begin with, but they got them down to a cd of .29. The whole front fascia comes off as one unit, so it would be easy to remove that and make a new one out of foam or something, it will be freakishly massive though haha.

https://photos-328.ak.facebook.com/ip...21328_2174.jpg

Stock,

https://photos-289.ak.facebook.com/ip..._3289_6586.jpg

zpiloto 02-10-2007 11:13 AM

Need Toecutter to chime in but I think the nose would help but the backend should be where you should put a lot of effort. Go with undertrays, wheel skirts, partial in the front, figure a way to slope the back, some kind of deflector on the hood to help push air over the almost straight windscreen and tape the door handles.

MetroMPG 02-10-2007 11:25 AM

In this case, front end mods are justified, owing to how square the transitions are. I'd bet you're currently getting separated flow at the very front of the vehicle.

I'm with z: fashioning something to taper the roofline downward and the greenhouse inward past the back window is critical on this car. The wind sees it as a pickup truck with a tonneau cover - you need a "bed" aero shell (see the Phil Knox references for his method).

I'm sure Toecutter will chime in with his list of mods.

We need a thread to refer people to. This question comes up pretty regularly.

MetroMPG 02-10-2007 11:26 AM

Don't forget smooth wheel covers. You've got some serious food processors on there now ;)

red91sit 02-10-2007 12:27 PM

I do already have the grill block, and underbody panels on the front. The problem is when I get to the end of the engine bay, I have the exhuast pipes and a driveshaft that moves up and down several inches. Behind that I have the rear end which is a large source of drag as well, but again it moves making it much more difficult to make aerodynamic.

The hood already does have a bit of a lip at the end which would help, but as you mentioned the air is already well disturbed here from the front of the car. I was mostly concerned with the nose at this point. It's not the biggest place for drag, but the easiest for me to fix. How does the shape of my planned nose look? I read a lot of reports from NASCAR testing, and they seem to have found best aerodynamics when the nose when it was shaped about like the one I have pictured. I've heard that you want the most air to go over the vehicle, but their testing went against this idea. Perhaps this is due to the high ground clearance? Or the lower the nose the more flat they were?

MetroMPG 02-10-2007 12:55 PM

I've read both: that you want a blunt, roughly hemispherical leading edge (as you've done). Problem with that is the stagnation point becomes higher, so more air goes beneath the car, with implications for handling (front end lift).

The other school of thought is generously rounded front-to-hood-and-sides transitions, but the lower part of the bumper should be more or less vertical, to lower the stagnation point and get more air over the car. (The EV1, Honda Insight, and the Bonneville Cobalt that came up earlier this week are more like this)

EDIT: I'd go with option 2 for your car because you have more unshielded stuff beneath the car.

lovemysan 02-10-2007 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red91sit (Post 40366)
I do already have the grill block, and underbody panels on the front. The problem is when I get to the end of the engine bay, I have the exhuast pipes and a driveshaft that moves up and down several inches. Behind that I have the rear end which is a large source of drag as well, but again it moves making it much more difficult to make aerodynamic.

The hood already does have a bit of a lip at the end which would help, but as you mentioned the air is already well disturbed here from the front of the car. I was mostly concerned with the nose at this point. It's not the biggest place for drag, but the easiest for me to fix. How does the shape of my planned nose look? I read a lot of reports from NASCAR testing, and they seem to have found best aerodynamics when the nose when it was shaped about like the one I have pictured. I've heard that you want the most air to go over the vehicle, but their testing went against this idea. Perhaps this is due to the high ground clearance? Or the lower the nose the more flat they were?

If your worried about the driveshaft etc. Leave the tunnel area uncovered and install some spoilers.

MetroMPG 02-10-2007 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 40360)
We need a thread to refer people to. This question comes up pretty regularly.

List added: List of aero mods you can do to your car

Not discouraging discussion of specifics for your particular car, but I think a general list will be useful to have around.

Silveredwings 02-10-2007 01:36 PM

don't forget lowering, shopping the roof, and shaving the handles. ;)

zpiloto 02-10-2007 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red91sit (Post 40366)

The hood already does have a bit of a lip at the end which would help, but as you mentioned the air is already well disturbed here from the front of the car.

I ment to raise the hoodline with it sloping from the front to the windshield where it's about 5" high toward the windshield. I did this on my Madza and saw about a 1.5% increase in FE but the windshield slopes a little better than yours.

MetroMPG 02-10-2007 02:43 PM

I have to admit, I have wondered why you're driving the limo. :) Not that there's anything wrong with trying to do better with what you've got.

cfg83 02-10-2007 07:48 PM

Hello -

How about clear plexiglass to create an aero-shape? :

https://home.earthlink.net/~cfg83/gas...ncoln_aero.jpg

Not practical, obviously (no wipers for that giant front window and good luck opening the trunk!), but it would be neet to know what the CD change is. The boat tail would be supported by a monster spoiler.

Are there any cheapo-aero modeling programs out there?

CarloSW2

skewbe 02-10-2007 08:47 PM

My apologies if I find this amusing :)

I remember way back when, reading in one of those car rags, some kid had a giant boat of a car with a big old motor in it (might have been a lincoln). According to the article, he took EVERYTHING (no more body or dash, etc) except the powertrain and gasstank and wheels off and bolted down a lawnchair or somesuch behind the wheel, put on some goggles, and did 11 second 1/4 miles.

Silveredwings 02-11-2007 02:53 AM

huh, huh? Huh?... :D
https://www.1966batmobile.com/sideclean.gif

MetroMPG 02-11-2007 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 40404)
Hello -

How about clear plexiglass to create an aero-shape? :

https://home.earthlink.net/%7Ecfg83/g...ncoln_aero.jpg

Don't forget the rear taper (after the roof) ... 10 to 12 degrees.

zpiloto 02-11-2007 05:33 AM

Kinda off topic but something else you could do thats not Aero but helps a bunch is get a block heater. I know on the 3.0 l with the rpm I was turn it took forever to get the engine warm. It had a dramatic affect on the FE.

GasSavers_BluEyes 02-11-2007 08:02 AM

You certainly can put more underbody covering on the car. Check this link:
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sho...ight=belly+pan

He had pics at one point but my computer dopes not seem to be loading them now? If they don't come up for anybody else, I have copies that I dl'd to my hard drive.

The thing is, only the very rear of the driveshaft moves. The front of course remains stationary. If you really want to leave the driveshaft exposed, find some driveshaft loops (drag race safety equipment and good insurance in case you ever lose a front u-joint) and use those as mounts for a smooth panel on either side of the driveshaft.

I'm not sure if the Lincoln uses a 4-link rear or leaf springs (I'm not a Ford guy) but either way you could probably do some aero around the rear axle using a sheet of flexible plastic. I'm working on this for my LeBaron (FWD, but a solid rear axle) and I think if it was attached to the suspension controll arms and the axle it would work fine. The plastic would be able to flex with the movement of the suspension and hopefully wouldn't make the kind of sounds you get from flexing a large sheet of metal.

For the rear of the car, looks like you could benefit from vortex generators or a lip spoiler. If you can, grab the March issue of "Hot Rod" and read the wind tunnel article they have. Talks a bit about lip spoliers and how they can be used to reduce drag. Basically tricks the air into thinking you have a boattail.

See if you can find more aero mirrors. I'm sure yours look alot like the ones on my '70 Caddy - very square and brick-like...

Consider an extractor vent on the hood like Ford used on the GT-40 (try google images if you are not familiar with it). It can help redirect what air does need to come into the engine bay back out and avoid it going under the car, plus it can help 'fill in' the low pressure/detached air flow area you likely have above the front of the nose.

cfg83 02-11-2007 11:49 AM

MetroMPG -

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 40428)
Don't forget the rear taper (after the roof) ... 10 to 12 degrees.

Whoops, I always forget that. Here is a revised version with about 10 degree taper, wheel covers, and front wheel air deflectors (or whatever they're called) :

https://home.earthlink.net/%7Ecfg83/g...ln_aero_02.jpg

CarloSW2

skewbe 02-11-2007 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclencher (Post 40457)
...

Also with all the intense crosswinds we have here I wonder if the Basjoos-style total-windshield-over-the-hood thing would actually decrease aero by virtue of the phenomenal increase in "frontal" area in the yawed condition.

Not real serious here, but I wonder if 4 wheel steering could be set up to keep the nose pointed into the wind but still keep the wheels going straight down the road?

Silveredwings 02-11-2007 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclencher (Post 40464)
I've thought about that too- it could be workable but can you imagine going down the road and negotiating corners like that? Most people couldn't handle I'M SURE OF THAT!!! As proof I offer the diagonal parking in snow-covered parking lots- idiots don't know where to pull up to so the "lines" of cars get waaay crooked.

On the other hand, if the rear wheels turned as much as the front, there'd be no advantage to backing into a parallel space. You could just pull in nose first the way most people do it any way. ;)

red91sit 02-12-2007 04:40 PM

I typed my replies in Reddish, BTW sorry for the super long lenght of this post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by skewbe (Post 40463)
Not real serious here, but I wonder if 4 wheel steering could be set up to keep the nose pointed into the wind but still keep the wheels going straight down the road?

Not with a live axle!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 40370)
I've read both: that you want a blunt, roughly hemispherical leading edge (as you've done). Problem with that is the stagnation point becomes higher, so more air goes beneath the car, with implications for handling (front end lift).

The other school of thought is generously rounded front-to-hood-and-sides transitions, but the lower part of the bumper should be more or less vertical, to lower the stagnation point and get more air over the car. (The EV1, Honda Insight, and the Bonneville Cobalt that came up earlier this week are more like this)

EDIT: I'd go with option 2 for your car because you have more unshielded stuff beneath the car.

Hmm that is a good point. I came up with rough idear of what I want. I figure this one would route most of the air over the car, or to the sides of the car (which is ideal since they are very clean with kamback style ends, except for wheel wells) https://www.freewebs.com/red91sit/testfront.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 40380)
I have to admit, I have wondered why you're driving the limo. :) Not that there's anything wrong with trying to do better with what you've got.

ha ha. well It's a good vehicle to haul my homies in. My fuel mileage looks so bad partially because my commute to work is 2 blocks, and to work is only about a mile. Others have gotten highway mpg of 28 on long trips. I figure with a bit of tuning I should be better than that. In thsi frigid climate, the abilty to warm up within just a few minutes is great. And oh my gosh, the luxuriousness of it is overwhelming. I would drive the civic, but it's motor threw a rod bearing the other weekend when the motor out ran the fuel pump :mad:. Now I'm unsure if I'm going to get forged internals with turbo, or go back to natural aspirated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 40404)
Hello -

How about clear plexiglass to create an aero-shape? :

https://home.earthlink.net/~cfg83/gas...ncoln_aero.jpg

Not practical, obviously (no wipers for that giant front window and good luck opening the trunk!), but it would be neet to know what the CD change is. The boat tail would be supported by a monster spoiler.

Are there any cheapo-aero modeling programs out there?

CarloSW2

Plexiglass in the front is an absolute no go for me. The weather here is freezing atleast 2/3 of the year, and the idea of scraping off that much frost in -20F weather makes me want to cry. The rear end could definetly benefit from this with the expense of looking like a herse haha. I hope you are all ready for a big cardboard boat tailing thing for the top box this spring :thumbup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclencher (Post 40373)
Even with nose work and fastback work that square greenhouse is a real impediment to good aero- I'm thinking those A-pillars are nasty. My vote would be to sell it and get something slipperier- or put a little 4-banger in there and putter around at 50 mph or less so aero isn't a factor! Also the undercarriage aero on that thing likely is no better than that of a pickup truck so an airdam/side skirts and/or bellypan would do more on this car than it does on our FWD unit-bodies.

The green house is truley a disaster, and yes the vehicle is for sale :-) but until then I'll work with what I have. I'm still trying to find a tripminder for this vehicle, which would REALLY help me out in the fuel usage test department. It's also a great little "tisk, tisk" device to prevent fuel abuse. Driving 50's not a big problem either, since these cars are associated with the elderly haha. A fast back on this car from roof to the top end of the trunk comes to around 20 degrees. Would it be better to use this, and get a smaller wake, or to go with 10-12 degrees and end up with a fairly large wake? For reference, this is nearly the same angle Phil Knox is using on his Toyota. At any rate, I will test out both configurations before i paint the car hehe.

Z-Pilito

I have a block heater, on my shelf haha. This weekend we're supposed to be in the teens, ABOVE!!! I should be able to install it then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluEyes (Post 40436)
You certainly can put more underbody covering on the car. Check this link:
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sho...ight=belly+pan

He had pics at one point but my computer dopes not seem to be loading them now? If they don't come up for anybody else, I have copies that I dl'd to my hard drive.

The thing is, only the very rear of the driveshaft moves. The front of course remains stationary. If you really want to leave the driveshaft exposed, find some driveshaft loops (drag race safety equipment and good insurance in case you ever lose a front u-joint) and use those as mounts for a smooth panel on either side of the driveshaft.

I'm not sure if the Lincoln uses a 4-link rear or leaf springs (I'm not a Ford guy) but either way you could probably do some aero around the rear axle using a sheet of flexible plastic. I'm working on this for my LeBaron (FWD, but a solid rear axle) and I think if it was attached to the suspension controll arms and the axle it would work fine. The plastic would be able to flex with the movement of the suspension and hopefully wouldn't make the kind of sounds you get from flexing a large sheet of metal.

For the rear of the car, looks like you could benefit from vortex generators or a lip spoiler. If you can, grab the March issue of "Hot Rod" and read the wind tunnel article they have. Talks a bit about lip spoliers and how they can be used to reduce drag. Basically tricks the air into thinking you have a boattail.

See if you can find more aero mirrors. I'm sure yours look alot like the ones on my '70 Caddy - very square and brick-like...

Consider an extractor vent on the hood like Ford used on the GT-40 (try google images if you are not familiar with it). It can help redirect what air does need to come into the engine bay back out and avoid it going under the car, plus it can help 'fill in' the low pressure/detached air flow area you likely have above the front of the nose.

I was actually thinking of hood scallps much like Datsun's used back in the day. The only thing is I have a FULL grill block, the fan just sucks air from around the edges of the radiator ha ha. I'm going to use some ducting on the civic, where it coudl really help when combined with a hoood exhaust. I should be able to block nearly all of the grill on that car as well :D

As far as the underbody goes. The big problem is finding things to attach the materials too. I dont' really like the idea of drilling into the frame, but if i change my mind, where do you get your sheet metal from? (has to be about 7 feet wide or long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclencher (Post 40457)
Even if you manage to achieve fantastic aero you still have a big V8, an inefficient slushbox automatice, loads of power-robbing accessories, and lots of weight. Unless it is consistently used to haul six people and their stuff around it is probably best to leave it parked.

Also with all the intense crosswinds we have here I wonder if the Basjoos-style total-windshield-over-the-hood thing would actually decrease aero by virtue of the phenomenal increase in "frontal" area in the yawed condition.

True, this engine spends a good deal of energy just keeping it's self going. The oval shapes of the basjoo styling do not increase in frontal area during cross winds until the angles of boat tailing, or boat fronting? are less than the angles of cross wind, 12 degree taper at the end won't be seen by a person unless they are standing more than 12 degrees to the midline of the car. I have a picture. but My post is getting WAAAY too big, so I'll put it up another day.

red91sit 02-15-2007 10:18 AM

Horray!!! I ordered a Fuel Consumption Display today. 25 mpg, here I come! lol

red91sit 03-11-2007 03:32 PM

Alrighty, I've got another plan for the car,
The top and the bottom of the car are VERY unaerodynamic, so why not use the sides? My main concern is the front wheels will disturb all flow going past them? Also it will be less triangley, more half cirlce shaped, but that's a lot harder to draw haha.

https://www.freewebs.com/red91sit/lin...owfrontend.jpg

caprice 03-19-2007 03:02 AM

Lincoln Aero Concept
 
I have a caprice and it is very simular shape. You know how the hood is two pieces of sheetmetal spotweilded together? remove the "skin" replace it your own fiberglass. Make it like a wide cowl induction hood. It won't block your visibility moe than the big hood does now... and the windshield will shrink, and the angle the wind hits it would be better. Decreace the gap on the front wheel, turn the back in to a fastback, like a Mustang, Camero, corvette. Cut off the whole back window, window sill, sides of trunk. Camero hatches are heavy though (too much glass is heavy). Use a small back window like the one off a 1998 Ford Exsort ZX2.

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...56bc6d93e0.jpg

I think the most aerodymanic front clip would be one that has the "transparent grill" as far forward as possible. In stead of a "grill block", we make it half its original size and move the bumper out 6 inches, any more may be a PITA. Then ALL of the rest of the bodywork angled back and as sleek as possible, like the new Hondas.

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...b0e6d3eef4.jpg

David

caprice 03-19-2007 03:22 PM

Just a custom front clip
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...d4a3664edc.jpg

caprice 03-20-2007 02:10 AM

Noone likes my design? :rolleyes: either use plexi glass (may not be good idea for winter, ice wont melt off it) or a newer style light, like the new Mazda Miata, though expensive

GasSavers_BluEyes 03-21-2007 03:42 AM

Not to be a pessimist, but how you should focus on the easier stuff first. Everyone is talking major body modifications here. I have done simple and much smaller mods to my LeBaron sedan (pretty similar body shape) and improved my mileage to over 30. Check my fuel log. You can steadily improve your mileage with much smaller aero mods like rear fender skirts, front fender gap fillers and an improved airdam without having to do anything so drastic.

cfg83 03-21-2007 12:52 PM

BluEyes -

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluEyes (Post 44493)
Not to be a pessimist, but how you should focus on the easier stuff first. Everyone is talking major body modifications here. I have done simple and much smaller mods to my LeBaron sedan (pretty similar body shape) and improved my mileage to over 30. Check my fuel log. You can steadily improve your mileage with much smaller aero mods like rear fender skirts, front fender gap fillers and an improved airdam without having to do anything so drastic.

I think that the idea is that the Lincoln has so much going against it that it could use major plastic surgery. For instance, the Lincoln weighs 4400 lbs and your car weights 3000 lbs.

But I agree the easier mods should be done first. More bang for the buck. And if the big mods don't pay off it will be pretty discouraging. Where's that free wind tunnel when you need it most!?!?!?!

CarloSW2

red91sit 03-21-2007 04:45 PM

Caprice - Great ideas you have there, a few problems I have though, I"m quite short, otherwise I would definetly have the cowl on there, but i woudln't be able to see over it haha. I"m about 1-2 inches above hood level, the way it is haha. The rear end though, i had a GENIUS idea. Remember on old cars how they would put a layer of slats to keep sunlight from coming in, but you could still look backwards through. https://www.cal-mustang.com/catalog/i...4268c_2std.jpg

These don't seem like they'd be too bad for flow? as it would flow from one step to the other, isntead of creating a "GIANT vortex behind the window.

:EDIT:: BTW - I jumped the lincoln too day, and got about 4-5 feet of air haha.


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