Team Challenge Results: What did you learn about FE?
 

This thread is intended to let team members talk about the things they did or didn't do during the Team Challenge to get better FE. What works? What doesn't? What was responsible for the increased FE?

I'd like to start by saying that the Team Challenge was one of the best things I could've done for better FE. If you look at my gaslog you'll see I was stuck around 38-39 mpg for months. I was set in my ways. I had heard about other driving techniques that help improve FE, but I never tried them, so I didn't know what I was missing. Entering the Team Challenge was like someone telling me, 'GO FOR IT!'

In a nutshell, I did two things that bumped my mpg up from 38mpg to a best tank of 45.5mpg.
First I started using Pulse and Glide properly. When I first started using this technique I didn't really see any results, probably because I was only gliding short distances, and the motor remained running. I also learned that the ecu has both an accelleration enrichment function as well as deccelleration enrichment. By frequently and quickly actuating the gas pedal on and off each time I began and ended a glide I was telling the ecu to squirt in a little extra fuel. So I learned to ease on/off the gas a little slower when going into and out of a glide.

The second thing I did right was to change my commute route. I had read about others who changed their route and improved their FE, but I was set in my ways. My standard route was direct, flat, and had consistent traffic to give me a corridor effect with frequent drafting opporitunities. (caution, I used to race road bicycles for over a decade, so I have excellent drafting skills, don't try this at home! or wherever :) ) So I didn't want to spoil a good thing. I knew of an alternative route that was just slightly longer but never considered it until I decided to take the scenic route home one day. My P+G habits kicked in and I found myself pulsing up mild grades and eoc down them. Taking that route just once while P+G'ing improved my FE and gave me a record tank without really trying! It's almost an ideal route for P+G: the hills are about 1 to 2 miles long with brief flat sections between the hills. I can climb the hills at 55mph in 5th gear (2k rpm) with engine vacuum around -5, (thank you omgwtfbyobbq for posting the VE graph) then eoc downhill at 55 to 65 mph for another mile.
The exit off the freeway is so perfect. It's like a surfer catching the ultimate tube ride. I can shut the motor off at about a mile from my exit and coast downhill. I'm still going about 50mph where the exit leaves the freeway, so I don't have issues with faster traffic. There the road turns uphill just enough to slow me to about 25mph for the cloverleaf offramp, which goes downhill again. There's no stopping after the exit, just a merge onto a quiet suburban road where the speed limit is 40. There's still no reason to turn the engine on yet since the speed limit drops to 35mph two blocks later. It's still downhill, if I'm lucky traffic will cooperate and I'll hit the 3 lights just right and keep coasting into the neighborhoods where the speed limit drops to 25. Next there's two stopsigns, so I'll start the engine and pulse up to 30mph, which only runs the engine for about ten seconds each time. I like to use 1/2 throttle to accellerate away from a stop while shifting at 1500 rpm.

Of course I had to use gas to climb up that hill, but the climb was done while the motor was in it's most efficient range (and lean burn helps). It's similar to how an Energy Efficient Appliance (like a refrigerator) works. The motor runs strongly for a short period, then shuts off. It's better than running lightly yet constantly.

DRW what an outstanding post. I also have gone over my commute route and found that by slipping over to a parallel street I'm able to hit the dreaded traffic light section of 4 light with better success. I'm now catching 3 out of 4 green instead of 1 out of 4. This alone has raised my FE segment by 2 MPG. I'm also finding that I'm walking and riding my bike more and if at all possible I'm driving during off peak hours.

That is also a big thing for me. I started taking my alternate rural route way more often to drive at lower average speeds. I have played with P&G a little but i need a kill switch to do it easier. Also should ask others with metro clones the best technique for P&G with this type of car. The injector kill switch will be coming to the metro experience soon:) .

I learned that even when doing something just for fun someone will come along and whine and complain and make it not so fun. :(

The one modification I made (the 1000 ohm "evry" mod shunt) was for a power improvement, not for an economy boost.
I chose to not do anything differently for the competition other than think further ahead and to anticipate better.
I didn't use P&G, EOC, codfish or anything else.
I didn't add wheel fairings, remove the interior and spare, add a grille block, or delete the power steering or alternator.
I did try a different route but went back to the original, "squandering" fuel because it saved time.
I ceased backing into the drive to allow a bump-start in the morning after one night.
I don't draft because I consider it to be 'tailgating' and just rude behavior.
I ran the tire pressures up to the 44 psi sidewall posted pressure but lowered them back within a few days because I didn't like the resulting ride.

The best change for me was the motivation to test P&G out in places I never figured I could.

It also motivated me to change the bazillion year old spark plugs and complete a few upgrades. Although the upgrades are tiny, it was satisfying and with a Peugeot there is nothing easy.

I have also did a bunch of research and learned allot about my cars that I thought I knew so well.

I have a ton of fun driving on the street now!!! Anticipating traffic, scoping out places to glide and coasting in freeway traffic makes driving to work more of an adventure. :cool:

It is soooooo hard resisting the temptation to wring the car out on the freeway ramps and a couple of other places on the way to work. Autocross season will be tough!! :)

As you mention DRW, it is such a thrill when things come together at that moment and you nail a great coast, it just feels great. As I mentioned before, it makes driving on the street more enjoyable.

You can bump start in reverse. Not sure if your set-up allows it.

Also, drafting doesn't have to be NACSAR-style. A safe following distance on a large vehicle can still help noticeably.

Great Thread
 

Great thread, DRW!

That's all I got...

Oh BTW, last night I found that following a big-rig freaks out the driver :o

-Boss Smog

I went back to summer tires a bit early, maybe not a good things since we are supposed to get 5-8 inches today.

I changed my oil to ELF CRV fully synthetic, I had planned to do it anyway but did it 2k early.

I stuck to the rural route instead of the highway to and from work/town, I typically take it to and from work but often when I am in town I took the highway home, but stuck to the slow way this tank. The slow way is actually less distance, but takes longer. 11 miles at 35 mph vs. 12 miles at 65mph.

Nothing else odd to the car, no mods.

On this tank (next cycle on the competition) I did disconnect the alt and hope to keep it that way for the entire tank. More to see what difference it makes then anything else. I have never ran it that way a whole tank (800+ miles).

Reverse is almost an identical ratio to 1st. The diesel compression puts a lot of stress on the C/V and clutch. Third (at about 10 mph) is less stressful and allows continuing to roll forward once running. Bumping in reverse still requires stopping (in the street) before moving forward.
Drafting is less effective than I thought. Drafting a tandem UPS trailer set (long length and lower than most) last night had an instantaneous mpg of 75 mpg at 65 mph at about one car length. Dropping back to one second (about 100 feet) returned 65 mpg. Two seconds returned 60 mpg. A steady 65 mph with no lead returned about 55 mpg.

Ah, diesel. I did not think about that. Even then I would not have thought diesel would make a difference. All that said, I wouldn't want to regularly bump start my car in anything lower than third, like you said.

Hmm, 10% is nice, but still not great. Driving boxy vehicles, I have seen greater improvements. Maybe the Camel is less-good for drafting, since it is already a nice shape.

I learned that going 65mph, I have people on my *** longer than at 55mph. Setting the cc at 53mph shows an expected but slight improvement, and I doubt I'll ever hit 50mpg round trip w/o a manual trans and a .5-.6 OD ratio. Maybe 40mpg if I'm lucky, but that's about it...

Great thread so far.

Common to other drivers: I'm generally just trying harder. Being more extreme - wringing more out of P&G (used it a LOT on a 120 mi trip today where normally I would have just driven with load). Results: 81.3 mpg indicated, round trip.

Another example mentioned earlier: getting out and pushing the car when I came up short on a glide to a stop sign at the crest of a little hill. (I've never pushed the car on the street before - in the driveway is another story).

I also reverted to alternator-less driving probably a little sooner in the season that I would have otherwise.

And my tire pressure is up a few more lbs.

DRW.

What do you think you're doing? Don't you know you're in California? Colorado is s'posed to be only place with hills (downhills, that is).

Seriously, you have made gigantic gains in a month. Really good to see that in a car that probably wouldn't be considered by many to be a great FE machine. And besides that, it runs good in the quarter mile. Congratulations.

Before the Challenge I had a number of items that needed to be on my car but I had not got around to. Cold starts and ensuing poor mileage for miles had been on my mind. The second week GasMisers5 was in, it was cold and snowed most of the week. I finally made room in the garage for Old Reliable and installed my block heater. Also had a hose water heater, put that on at the same time. Decided to put an oil heater I had gotten for the trans on the engine oil pan for now. Took my alternator off to check for a way to put a field switch. I had the thing all apart and my neighbor called and said he could help with my trans gears Saturday. Heaters were done and I rigged a piece of inner tube to drive the water pump. I had decided to leave the alternator off for the 6.2 miles to his place. Air conditioning compressor and power steering were left disconnected also.

Friday night I got ready to go. I started thinking I should do something to hold the heat from the block and water heaters overnight. Garage not heated yet. I had rolls of R30 insulation and used 3 batts fender to fender between the engine and the hood. I had plenty of insulation left and covered the space between the floor and the car body all around.

Saturday morning 7 AM, 16 degrees F. When I got in the car I almost rolled my window down it was so warm. I drove about a quarter mile and the car was in closed loop. Usually takes at least 4 miles for that to happen. I didn't get far down the road before I began noticing drastically improved MPG readings on ScanGauge. When I reached my neighbor's place I had 122 MPG registering. He had the garage door open, I just coasted in. Before, every time I drove by his place, SG would show 80-82 MPG. That difference will wake you up.

I may not have done these things even today except for the Challenge.

CO ZX2 wrote: 'I may not have done these things even today except for the Challenge.'

Aren't you glad you did? I know I'm happy with the stuff I learned from the Team Challenge. I just filled up tonight-my first tank after ending my stint in the TC. I drove normally this week, sometimes kinda fast. Guess What? my mileage didn't drop like a rock! I got 42.6 mpg. I'm still using the skills I picked up from the TC, and it doesn't seem like so much work anymore. I really didn't expect to get such good FE out of this tank. I wonder if Gremlins are pushing my car around and adding miles while I'm asleep?!

Making a Return?
 

So does this mean you're coming back to the Challenge? :D

Yeah, I think I will.
Eventually.

What does driving with load mean (it's not in the glossary)? Does it simply mean driving with a steady throttle?

DWL isn't in there?

It's where you let your speed vary over changes in elevation, rather than pushing harder and harder on the go pedal to maintain speed on the way UP and then lifting off to maintain speed on the way DOWN (which is how most people - and cruise controls - drive).

Not that I can see.

Ah, thanks! So basically it's like choosing a certain GPH to drive at (I usually like 0.8, but sometimes 0.7 works!) and let my car travel from 41mph - 50+mph. I wonder why it's more efficient doing that than the cruise control keeping a steady speed (wouldn't you think that the MPG loss going up hills be compensated by the large MPG increase doing down slopes)?

So far, the only change in my driving habits has been to start FAS'ing on even the slightest downhills, whereas before I would only FAS on downhills with enough grade to maintain my speed (it doesn't take much of a downhill for that). In the NC mountains where I do most of my driving there aren't a lot of options as to alternate routes.

The second thing I have been trying is experimenting with acetone (3oz per 10gal). Its too early to tell about any mileage gains, but the first thing I noticed a couple of miles after adding it is that the engine runs a lot smoother at the lower rpm's. I can go a lot deeper into the "lugging zone" without lugging than before. Before my lowest non-lugging speed in 5th was 30mph, but now I can get down to 25mph without excessive lugging. This effect goes away within a few miles if I gas up without adding more acetone. I use industrial grade acetone. The acetone sold at drug stores for cosmetics use usually has other chemicals added to it to reduce its "stinkiness", which negates the high volutility of pure acetone.

Oh! I also broke down and finally ordered a SuperMID.

Woohoo! I can hardly wait to see what a MID will enable you to do. Of course there's always the possibility that you've maxed out your technique by the seat of your pants.

However, one thing that your pants can't do is encourage you the way instant feedback can.

Please keep us posted on that...

Peakster wrote: '(wouldn't you think that the MPG loss going up hills be compensated by the large MPG increase doing down slopes)?'
The mpg gain going downhills is never quite good enough to make up for the mpg loss going up.

I did a mini experiment one day. I simply read the mpg meter while reving the engine in neutral. At a steady 2000rpm my motor uses about .84gph. There's no way for me to drive at 2k rpm and use less than .84gph without slowing my car. If I was going downhill using light throttle I typically use about 1.2gph, but only .36 of that is pushing the car (1/4th). When going uphill I might use 3 gph, so 2.16gph is used to propel the car. The percent loss to internal drag is much less.

I was P&G yesterday at 40-35mph and realized that accelerating at good throttle in 5th gets about 20mpg but gliding was about 190mpg so IF is pulsed 50% of the time the MPG average would be (190+20)/2 = 105mpg and it looks like I could pulse less than 50% of the time - just need a long enough road to try it for a while without traffic. Stopping to chat for a few minutes with engine running at .1gph lowered my 50.9mpg trip of 19 miles down to 49.7mpg but still a good trip MPG with an average of 44 for the round trip carrying a load of a couple hundred pounds and headwinds going.

0.1 Gph
 

That is hilarious, my van uses 0.3-0.4 GPH at IDLE. Dang. :eek:

GPH at various rpm in neutral
 

DRW: I did a mini experiment one day. I simply read the mpg meter while reving the engine in neutral. At a steady 2000rpm my motor uses about .84gph. There's no way for me to drive at 2k rpm and use less than .84gph without slowing my car. If I was going downhill using light throttle I typically use about 1.2gph, but only .36 of that is pushing the car (1/4th). When going uphill I might use 3 gph, so 2.16gph is used to propel the car. The percent loss to internal drag is much less.

CO ZX2: I just ran these tests as a comparison to your .84 gph at 2000 rpm in neutral. Hard for me to believe the differences between mine and yours.

I was very careful when reading the rpm and converting from liters to gallons. I used the liter setting for better resolution, SG gph only reads in .1 gal increments. So eveything between .1 gal to .2 gal reads .2 gal etc.

750 rpm .13 gph
1000 rpm .18 gph
1500 rpm .29 gph
2000 rpm .37 gph
2500 rpm .50 gph
3000 rpm.66 gph
3500 rpm .77 gph
4000 rpm .93 gph

Can my car possibly take that much less fuel to run at comparable RPMs? Would be interested in others' results if they care to test. You can do it sitting still. Warm your engine first.

Turbo? But I would be inclined to think the turbo would reduce pumping loss on intake. Compression stroke would create extra resistance but the power stroke should more than make up for that. Exhaust pumping loss should not be a problem unless your exhaust valve opens extremely late.

How much boost do you see at 2000, 4000 and max boost? I have given some thought to a turbo for Old Reliable. Trying to get some ideas.

What do you think?

I like this idea, CO. Would be a great comparison. Would be good to compare several of the same cars as well, to see if there's any difference.

I'll try to remember to do the same thing you did (same range) after I next drive my car.

If we get a few people agreeing to repeat your test range on their cars, I'll move the results into a new thread in the "experiments" forum. It's threadworthy. :)

Question: CO - was this with your alternator & power steering connected or disconnected? I believe that would make a significant difference.

People doing this should also record what loads were on (or removed from) their engines at the time of the readings. IE - DRLs? Alternator-less? Etc.

Sounds like an interesting idea! I'll give it a try sometime in the near future.

CO ZX2:
Air conditioner compressor, power steering, water pump and alternator were all back on the car and running. I thought my battery was fairly well-charged but was still showing around 14.5 volts when running this test.

I had just driven 20 miles so engine was warmed and stable. Patience is a virtue in this to assure accurate readings. I spent about 15 minutes checking and rechecking for repeatability.

That is normal. It is necessary for the alternator to be at a higher voltage than the battery (13.2 for a six cell Pb-A) for current to flow. The question isn't how much voltage, but how many amperes? The amperes are a better indication of the actual load on the belt,(and drag on the engine) since the voltage regulator will keep the charging voltage at right around 14.4 and the amperes are allowed to vary.

I will do the test as well, I might be off of course becasue I am running a diesel. I will also get it in .1L

I do know my car idles warm at 925 rpm at .25L or .066 gph

0.066 gph :o

So, if someone was pushing the car at 3mph, you would get 45mpg with the engine idling :)

landspeed, great job last week. Will you do the fuel useage test on your car?
I am gathering info, thinking of a turbo. If you can, match the rpm numbers that I did. Thanks

Except that it will hold 5th gear at idle, about 28 mph.
Calculate........NOW!

Double check your numbers since it can't possibly be correct.....now!

:eek:

CO ZX2:
The much lower gph figures in your rpm tests are probably due to your 10,000+ft elevation. The air is a lot thinner up there, so the engine controller needs to add less fuel to that thinner air to maintain the correct air/fuel ratios.

CO ZX2 : I don't have an instantaneous MPG meter yet, but will do those tests once I do!. I also need to fix my AFM as it is running a bit rich again :(

Lug_Nut : The 0.066gph sounds reasonable for some cars. In fact, I was using a work car yesterday with instantaneous MPG - it was a diesel, and at 10mph, the MPG goes >90.0 (if idling and coasting).

It's not necessary to keep down to a jogging speed or slower for better F.E.
I averaged 83 mpg (2.8l/100km) at (barely) highway speeds over a 250+ mile course in the 2003 Tour de Sol. The proscribed course simultaneously tested both fuel efficiency and range. An average of 47 mph per loop was the slowest I could go to get credit for the loop distance.
The 2005 Tour de Sol had a competitor's choice of course with the requirement of a finish at the event site and a minimum of 500 miles distance. That year the car got 77 mpg (3.3l/100km) at an average of 42 mph.
My present onboard display frequently indicates 99.9 mpg, its display limit.

Diesels don’t like high RPM’s ;) Here are my result with a warm engine. This really makes me want to do the 5th gear swap (swapping it for a gear 11% lower) at idle I sit at 905 rpm, can’t get below that. I put (CO ZX2) for reference.

0905 rpm .0528 (.13) gph
1000 rpm .0752 (.18) gph
1500 rpm .1585 (.29) gph
2000 rpm .2906 (.37) gph
2500 rpm .5046 (.50) gph
3000 rpm .7397 (.66) gph
3500 rpm .8189 (.77) gph
4000 rpm .9774 (.93) gph

So it looks like once I get above 2500 rpm I start to loose overall efficiency compared to a gasser?

I went back and checked my consumption at different rpms. I was concerned that my readings were not accurate enough last time, so I made sure the radiator fans were off this time. There were no other loads on the engine. I held each rpm point as steady as possible while I took the reading, which was about 15 to 20 seconds. In between each rpm point I let the engine idle with both fans on.

Idle 720rpm .34gph
1000rpm .44gph
1500rpm .63gph
2000rpm .83gph
2500rpm 1.07gph
These are slightly lower than my first reading, which were done on a warm afternoon. Maybe the fans were coming on? Either way, this shows me the base consumption for my motor.

CO ZX2 wrote:'How much boost do you see at 2000, 4000 and max boost? I have given some thought to a turbo for Old Reliable. Trying to get some ideas.'

I've never really looked at boost around 2k rpm. I might see 5 to 8 psi around 2k. The turbo hits max boost of 20psi around 3200 rpm. To give you an idea of the powerband, redline is 7k, peak HP is somewhere around 6200rpm, peak torque is somewhere around 3800rpm. So if you're looking for a turbo, check that the turbo flow matches your motor. I have more info if you need to know more.