Day time running Lights
 

A simple idea can cost a lot. How much extra fuel would be burned in the USA if all cars were required to have DRL like Canada? Answer

I see the point behind DRLs, but don't know if they're necessary. I feel like safety is very important, and instead of trying to accomodate people who can't drive, we should make our licensing processes more strict and keep them off the road, :), that would save a lot of gas, too.

I have day time running lights :( I need to disconnect them, although I doubt it wastes that much fuel.

Zvolen -

When I stared at the wiring diagram, I came to the conclusion that the hi-beams (which are what Saturns use as DRLs) are using between 5 and 10 Amps.

I disabled mine by pulling the DRL fuse from the underhood fusebox. On Saturns, this causes you to lose one of your hi-beams (It has to do with how the headlights are wired, lose a fuse, lose a hi-beam. I have a picture of it somewhere). On saturnfans.com, there is a way to restore the hi-beam with some creative fusebox wiring, but I have not found the definitive way to do it.

I keep the fuse in my car if and/or when I really need my hi-beams. I am in sunny LA, and even in fog, I don't use them (in fog I think hi-beams are bad because they reflect too much light back to the driver, right?).

CarloSW2

This is precisely how I disabled DRL on my 2000 SL2, 2002 SC2, and now 2002 SL2...

https://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...s/QV_LI033.jpg

1. With lights turned off, remove the DRL relay
2. Plug a 10 or 12 gauge piece o' wire in the slots shown, as pictured standing at the left fender, looking across the fusebox toward the engine.

------------
| -- -x- -- |
| -x- ... -- |
------------

No DRLs and both high beams work when needed. There's a write-up on www.saturnfans.com. That's where I found this hack. Can't recall which thread though. Be advised instead of the DRLs turning on when you put the car in gear, the DRL light on the IP will flash briefly, and turn off. I rarely notice it anymore. I've had my car at the stealership a few times for minor things and never once was it mentioned, "hey, did you know your daytime running lights aren't working?"

Funny that this subject comes up.:rolleyes: Last Friday, I decided to try to restore my right-side highbeam in my Saturn. I had seen a diagram somewhere a long time ago and thought I could do it from memory; BIG MISTAKE!:( Lets just say that after the smoke cleared from the dash I discovered that I have no speedo, tach, and that the fuel and temp gauges look like they have a bad case of the jitters and there is a faint off and on glowing in the hazard light indicator and the odometer flickers as well.:o My son went inside and found the proper diagram on this site: https://www.lightsout.org/disable.html#GMgen
The listing for Saturn's is about half way down the page.
Thank goodness I have my SG or I wouldn't have any idea how fast I'm going or how fast the engine is turning.
Edit: I see davidjh72 beat me to it. Thanks. His is a better representation anyway.

My bro decided to be "helpful" and put a radio in dad's Dodge Aspen wagon. Crappy sound out of the stock speakers and bonus... no IP lights!

diamondlarry -

I am sorry to hear that!!!!!! I don't like it when bad things happen to GasSaver cars.

davidjh72 -

Thanks for the mod. That is what I was vaguely remembering! Maybe you posted it at saturnfans. While not true in all cases, a beefy gauge wire (like the 10-12 you suggest) is imperative because if it is not thick enough, it can be overloaded and burn and melt.

CarloSW2

I wish I could take credit for the mod. Might have been the famous Wolfman's work.

+1 on using a thick gauge wire. Headlamps, especially hi-beams, are a high current draw item. Don't be using anything crazy small like 22 gauge (tiny!) electronics project wire. 10 gauge works, but I found I had to lose two strands of the 7 or so on each end or it wouldn't quite fit. 12 gauge would be perfect. I used that same piece of wire with all three of my 2000/2002 S-series cars. Of course I put the relay back in when I traded in those cars.

All I have to do now is figure out what I fried and how much it will cost to fix.:eek:

hehe i disabled them by yanking out the fuse on my 95 s-10 everything still works too. the 98+ s-10 ya gotta bend pin 86 on the drl relay.

i wired up my headlights directly to the battery (with relays) and now thier very noticeably brighter! im gonna do it to my next car its that good.

At least you didn't toast the SG! I unplug mine anytime I'm tinkering around the electricals on the car.

diamondlarry -

I just e-bayed these :

98-99 Saturn S Series Cluster Speedometer Gauges LKQ
https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-99...em190103661514

98-99 SATURN S SERIES INSTRUMENT CLUSTER
https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-99...em290106680905

Have you done a forensic analysis? Are the gauges really fried or are there blown fuses that can be restored?

Sounds like it's pick-a-part time.

CarloSW2

I added a switch to turn mine off, but I still drive lights-on during the day in certain traffic/road scenarios.

I used to teach defensive driving - lights on for safety is a no brainer. Though there are clearly some situations where they're wasting power and not contributing to safety (ie divided, limited access highways).

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out tomorrow when I get home. As for the guages, I'm not sure. The speedo and tach occasionally go up and stop at random places. Yesterday, the tach went past 8K and stayed there for awhile then dropped back.

I opted to keep them in my Metro. Reason: EXCELLENT backup headlights. I live in the country (bad roads) and like many Metros my fuse box is a bit on the fried side due to the chintziness of it. Until I rewire it, I'll leave them - the headlights regularly just "go out" when I'm driving along my bumpy dirt roads, all I do is switch over to DRL's and I'm fine. :thumbup:

I hated my Saturns DRL's, they're so bright they blind people. If you drive a Saturn S series and tell me you've never been brighted because of your DRL, I'll either say you don't drive it much or you're a liar. :p

Wazabi -

Yeah, I never knew the Saturn DRL's were actually the hi-beams. Somebody designed a two-for-one and it didn't work out. Why not just leave the low-beams on instead?

CarloSW2

You sure the Saturn DRLs aren't high beams run through a resistor to cut their light output?

Wowser, that's a lot of fuel!

So it's a lot of gas burned cumulatively, but not very much per each individual vehicle (aka, not really worth disabling DRLs for increased FE).

I've heard they were run through a resister, but they are just so darn bright I find it hard to believe. On my old SW2 I just pulled the relay and never got around to running the jumper wire - sacrificed the one high beam.

On the CDN smart car, the DRL are low beams plus tail lights and side markers.

They are disabled by (engine off) pulling back on the high beam switch as though flashing high beams and then pressing the "unlock" button on the remote. Car beeps, and it's off. This is a feature that is undocumented in Canada, but documented in Europe, where DRL are optional. Simple!

I use the smart's foglights as DRL, so the only difference is that I am conserving the smart's notoriously fragile H-7 low beam bulbs.

Total wattage is about 140 with everything on, which is about 0.2 HP.

Saturn DRLs are the hi-beams, at a lower power. With my DRLs enabled, in my carport at night, they aren't as bright as when I turn on the full hi-beams. So, the DRLs in this model car are hi-beams shining into oncoming traffic, at a lower intensity than full on hi-beams.

On a scale of brightness I'd rate the Saturn lights like this, dimmest to brightest... amber "parking lights", DRLs, low-beams, hi-beams. DRLs aren't as bright as the low-beams, as I've witnessed at night with my own car; DRLs alone at night are no match for the low-beams and certainly not the hi-beams full-on.

I've heard the argument against DRLs that they take away the advantage motorcyles have in their always-on headlight. At a quick glance, a car with one light out, looks like a motorcycle. Do a double-take to make sure it's a car at a reasonable speed, and not a "ninja" bike about to go screaming by over 100 MPH...

I was reading this thread and I am suprised no one mentioned LED DRL's. In either white or amber.

On Saturns, the DRLs may technically be dimmer than the low beams, but to oncoming drivers, the DRLs are much more obnoxious.

caprice -

Wouldn't work for a Saturn because of the hi-beam double-duty. How about this? In the foglight location of my Saturn, how about your LEDs located there instead? It would have to be a custom circuit that turns off when the regular headlights turn on.

The Fog-DRLs would be cheap on the juice and visible by day but low to the ground, so maybe less offensive.

CarloSW2

Headlights all the time
 

I thought I'd chime in here late...

Most GM DRLs are high-beams at a lower output, for a longer distance of visibility. They went to illuminating the bright amber turn sigs on some models, which wreaks havoc on signalling, IMO.

Weather or not EOC-ing, I drive with my headlights. There are inattentive drivers out there that may take a second look before pulling-out and ruining a good coast or worse.

After I post this, I'm sure the battery will be dead in the morning :o

As far as being mandatory, I agree with safety features being standard. ABS, ESP, Airbags, etc. If it proves to save lives or prevent injury, why not?

-R

The system itself works... and very well... The driver that uses it screws it up. So statistically, it would appear as if it doesn't work. Mechanically, it's very effective IF the driver doesn't change his/her braking habits. ABS should only kick on in an emergency...

The reason, just as you said... complacency. I used to be in the "I don't want ABS - I know how to drive, I can brake accordingly" crowd. The problem is, the time you really need it is when the problem wasn't caused by you... You know, trying to avoid some clown's accident. I for one will attest to it's capabilities - I'm fairly certain that it (ABS + steering) saved my butt from a rather nasty accident. The roads were wet from bad rain too :thumbdown:

Stomp and Steer
 

I agree with the above. Lately I've driven a variety of rental vehicles with or without ABS, in situations ranging from snow/ice to dry pavement.

In emergency situations (hard braking with steering input) the ABS absolutely proves itself on doing what the driver can't -- modulate each brake to maintain control (advanced EBD systems can send additional pressure to wheels that are gripping, to maximize stopping abilitiy. It stinks to get in a car and not realize that it doesn't have ABS -- that is, until one wheel's locked up and you're scrambling to maintain control in tight situations.

ABS may not prove to be better in all situations, bust I would say most. People just need to learn how to use them. There's a "Stomp-n-Steer" campaign to educate drivers not to pump ABS brakes.

Having some sort of identifier would be nice -- like on the pedal of old 70's and 80's cars that had disc-brakes -- it was printed within the rubber on the brake pedal. Today you have to pop the hood and look for the "spider" (or consult the manual). I guess while I have the hood up to verify the engine displacement for the Rental Analysis, I need to check for ABS too. Yep, how many people rent a car and pop the hood? Yeah, they look at you funny...

I generally throw this out there: "Would you feel more comfortable sending a family member or loved-one out there with or without it"? -- which includes other drivers' equipment for accident prevention/avoidance.

RH77

ABS is awesome, full stop.

"Yeah, sir.... we're going to REQUIRE that you take that extra insurance now"


I've heard that it's not so great in snow/ice conditions.... I would think it would be even better to make sure the wheels with the most traction get braking power.... iono, can you explain? I've lived in S. Florida and have never needed to drive in snow/ice :thumbup:

But in my owner's manual -- it does say ABS will make your stopping distance longer on gravel. Because a gravel "dam" never forms in front of your wheels.

Snow and ABS/ESP
 

I'm half-tempted to yell out, "This thing got a HEMI???" (...especially on the Taurus)

The gravel and snow/ice is probably similar -- I haven't noticed better stopping in snow/ice, but a better ability to steer and brake. With stability control (on both surfaces), of course the ABS is required to make the corrections, and works well. Except when you're sliding completely sideways in a corner and you're trying to power out of it -- and the throttle's cut :eek:


RH77

Now that is a technique that I like. Too bad it does not save fuel. I do practice this in my head as I coast through the corners moving at a walking pace, not the same. Waiting for the "off season". :p

Rally
 

This was at a Pro-Rally earlier this year-- muddy and slick. The rental Jeep Liberty ended up sideways in a corner (somewhow :confused: ...;) ) -- problem is TREE!!! Foot to the floor with nothing. I think the Blues Brothers would had put it best: Our lady of Blessed Acceleration, Don't Fail us Now! It luckily sorted itself out and gave enough limited power to correct it.

I know, not a vehicle to be driving in such a manner -- but an opportunity to have a closed road and be vehicle to follow the last Rally car (as the Medic) can't be missed -- and the ESP was needed for the margin of safety for the other 99% of the time End result = :D Lessons learned.

RH77