Bill, it seems you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth....there are dudes here that do in fact need a grilling....and I think you know that...otherwise you would not have started this thread....don't back down Bill...stay on the track you started here, as it is a good track. ;)

Well, I'm certainly trying to shame us, friggin stoopid nekked apes when we act collectively.

Disappointing
 

This is my 2-cents on the subject. Granted, I am a moderator, but that only kicks-in when something obviously against site policy is noticed, or to organize the FE Challenge Forum. I've been on vacation for a week or so, and just starting checking back in to see what's going on... and I'm a bit shocked to see what members are saying.

I joined GS to find out how to improve my fuel economy. What would happen if I was shunned for having a guzzler hatchback? Of course it wouldn't be fun and I probably would've left.

Consider the following:

-You can say whatever you'd like (providing it's not against the site policy of being obscene, etc.) But remember, words have power and consequences.
-People aren't going to change overnight. If someone with a guzzler joins-up, that means they're concerned about saving fuel (whether it means saving money or not). They may not immediately trade the vehicle, but common sense says that the next vehicle will likely be more efficient.*
*-This can only happen with support instead of discrimination.

Matt can speak to this better, but the site goal is to have a forum for the free exchange of ideas for fuel economy. We can't have that if people are leaving.

I know for a fact that some Senior Members are leaving because of stuff like this.

Whatever fuel you can save is good -- doesn't matter if you're driving a V-10 Expedition, or a Civic. Each of those 2 members, for example, might look for a better vehicle next time. If you look around, it's easy to figure out which vehicles get the best mileage.

In this thread, I haven't seen any post to moderate...
But I'm disappointed in what some have said...

If you find any post that isn't appropriate, as always, notify a Mod or Matt. If it differs against your opinion, that's different. Like I said, say what you like, but think about how it sounds... What the immediate effect is.

-Rick (RH77)

And with that, this thread can probably be shut down... Rick?

I can't see a rule-based reason to close it at this point. I'm hoping that my previous post will convey the sense of responsibility that members have.

Just like with new members, I'm not asking to change opinions -- just a request to take a cool-down period on the issue, and if folks need to post on the issue, do it with an intent to help others and the forum, instead of creating a shield of isolation.

RH77

I think the reason people leave the site is that they have nothing else to contribute. If they did they'd be posting about ideas, or things they've done. People have differing opinions, you can try to explain, but you can't MAKE people agree with you.

I agree partly with leaving due to having gone as far as thye want to go, but I also think that some people leave due to the tone of a group becoming unpleasant.

I agree that some people may feel they have extracted as much worth out of this site as they can - and for the majority of non-car type people I am sure that is true in a relatively short period of time. Those of us who are apt to stick around longer are 'car people'. We like to tinker, engineer, and just geek out over silly improvements. My wife likes to save fuel and money as much as the next person, but you won't see her here often if at all because she simply isn't into cars to that extent.

It's that way with vitually every forum out there. You have your die-hards, FAQ'ers, and looky-loos. The latter two always go away eventually no matter how nice you are.

OK.

Your mother is a hamster, and your father smells of elderberries!

On the main subject, might I suggest a change in the layout? The board I normally hang out at has 3 separate forums where everything is discussed. One is vehicle performance, one is the BS (everything else) board, and one is classifieds. The advantage with this is everyone can check all posts without it being an all day job like it is here, and that board is recognized as the number 1 Chevy truck performance board with a core group of about 50 people and a membership approaching 600. I keep going there because of the cameraderie even though they are starting to think I'm a closet tree hugger. The simple layout of that board allows it to be the #1 site, because the entire board will be reading all the posts, and applying that considerable mental power to a problem. Here, someone working on aero might only go to the aero board, and will either miss something non-aero that he could use while installing an aero mod, or might have the solution to a problem but never saw the post to respond to.

I'd suggest 4 main groupings here with no sub categories, vehicle performance, home performance, the BS board and classifieds. Making it easier to review will help keep people in, I only come here once or twice a week since it's so hard to get around, keep track of posts, ect, not to mention that with the large number of sub categories it may be weeks between posts. If it's hard to check, people will go away.

I won't go into posting, I know I can come across as an *** using written words so I know others may just appear to be ***-like when in fact it's a shortcoming of the medium. Smileys can help with tempering the post. :D