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cfg83 09-07-2007 12:58 PM
stinkindiesel -

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkindiesel (Post 71277)
It's because you're fussy. You evidently knew what I meant. And why would an athiest object to something he doesn't know exists or not?
Yes, I know the dif between agnosticism and atheism. And did it really really matter? I was hoping that you could've at least not automatically dismissed my blah-blah because I used an incorrect word.
That's not fair. There's a *big* difference. If you want to make your point, you shouldn't get that part wrong. I knew what you meant, but it weakens your argument.

CarloSW2

trebuchet03 09-07-2007 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkindiesel (Post 71277)
And did it really really matter?
It absolutely does - accuracy establishes credibility. I'm actually checking to make sure what I say is accurate to the best of my abilities/resources. How does anyone trust what you say if it doesn't really matter if it's correct or not. It takes two seconds to verify what you write. What I'm getting from this is that you don't care enough.

Yes, I understood through context - because I keep an eye on current events. If I had never heard of that court case, I would continue on - ignorance is bliss. Fussy is but a complimentary name calling word - I should be so lucky to have "Fussy" as an adjective next to my position on accuracy.

Quote:
And why would an atheist object to something he doesn't know exists or not?
Now we've established you know the difference between the two. You make a very good point on the subject of proof reading. Reading what you write such that you write what you mean is paramount when you're trying to make a point.

It's not that I dismissed it, it's that (as you've now explicitly proven) previous statements made them incredulous.

These basic ideas of proof reading and fact checking are perfectly reasonable given the small amount of time needed. If you should find otherwise, or would like to progress with any form of immature name calling, I'll take my bow as I enjoy discussions where it is evident all parties care to put basic effort into their words.

skewbe 09-07-2007 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet03 (Post 71288)
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkindiesel (Post 71277)
...And why would an athiest object to something he doesn't know exists or not?...

Now we've established you know the difference between the two...
we did?

bowtieguy 09-07-2007 01:28 PM
Speaking again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 71286)
stinkindiesel -



That's not fair. There's a *big* difference. If you want to make your point, you shouldn't get that part wrong. I knew what you meant, but it weakens your argument.

CarloSW2
much to the shegrin(surely) of skewbe,treb,obgwtf...,and yourself i am speaking again. as you can see there are more conservatives(not republiCANTS) with unbiased points of view. treb asked me my def of agnostic recently. let's take a different avenue...a wise man once said there is no such thing as an athiest--how can one prove God's nonexistence. to be clear of my point(skewbe seems to miss them), many things are still being discovered(proved). besides, my use of agnosticism was aimed towards the preconcieved notions of self-proclaimed athiests that WILL NOT seek truth without bias! besides, everyone serves a god, be it self,money,power,etc. oh yes, agnostic:one who is neither sure or unsure. stinkindiesel is,i think, trying to opose the anti-American(by Americans)views on this forum. don't ask what your country can do for you... by the way, was wondering if the foremensioned individuals(at the top) liked my new avatar. seemed appropriate since you guys think me evil/insane.

trebuchet03 09-07-2007 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skewbe (Post 71289)
He did?
It's pretty close in a general sense (a bare minimum enough to classify versus another)... If it's futile to know of existence; it is unknowable - the answer to the question of deity existence would be "I don't know."

Of course, a better answer is 42 :D

bowtieguy 09-07-2007 01:44 PM
Treb?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet03 (Post 71271)
Fair enough -- perhaps I should have emphasized any group that refuses to assimilate local culture. An example would be areas in the greater Miami region - where Hispanic/Latino unemployment of 9.1/13.6 (m/f)- but this includes non citizens (I believe).This compared to Ft. Lauderdale (50 or so miles north) - where the same demographic has unemployment rates of 7.5/9.7 (m/f).

Both cities have nearly opposite language statistics. (25% v. 75% English speaking). Miami having a foreign born population of nearly 60% (~42% being naturalized) compared to Lauderdale having 22% (41% naturalized).

Again, I have nothing against pride on one's culture. It's the ego (with any culture) that gets to me. I can only say anecdotally, but the polarization within neighborhoods (ethnically, economically, socially) in Miami seems much greater as compared to Ft. Lauderdale. That's not to say I haven't seen the same in Lauderdale. Again, anecdotally - this past summer I had a flight out of Miami Int.... The safety speech they give on the planes, was never done in English...

I just want to reiterate an idea that I haven't said explicitly... I have nothing against either city. I can point out some great spots in either city -- I'm not trying to make a stereotypical NY v. LA comparison. I'm offering an example (which, in the end could be pure causality - which is why I hate statistics figures).
why treb did that really come from you? sounded almost like yielding to someone else's view and maybe even an apology. be careful, you might gain some respect of "others" who don't see the world the way you do!

trebuchet03 09-07-2007 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtieguy (Post 71290)
my use of agnosticism was aimed towards the preconceived notions of self-proclaimed atheists that WILL NOT seek truth without bias!
Oh dear....

In language, there is a definition of a word. If everyone has their own definition, that wouldn't be language.

So.... To level everything out....

Agnosticism - as coined by Huxley in the late 1800's

Quote:
Agnostic[ism]: attitude of one who regarded as futile all attempts to know the reality corresponding to our ultimate scientific, philosophic, and religious ideas
That is, it is based on the doctrine of the Unknowable.


Quote:
why treb did that really come from you? sounded almost like yielding to someone else's view and maybe even an apology. be careful, you might gain some respect of "others" who don't see the world the way you do!
As I've said in the past - weather you want to believe it or not... I clash with almost every platform. To state explicitly, almost everything you've said, thus far - I have disagreed with. Your opening statement clearly shows that you were so closed minded as not to accept that someone can have views that don't fit a straight ticket.

skewbe 09-07-2007 01:54 PM
BOWTIE, where ya been?!? Things were getting too sane around here ;)

Hey, tell me, how can you prove that it wasn't invisible pink unicorns that created/designed/accidently farted out the universe? Gotta keep that alternative point of view remember, lest you be labeled as biased.

FYI, there is such a thing as an athiest. God is just an outlier to them, such an infinately small probablility that it can be confidently discarded. Pascal was too biased in his wager, the options are infinite actually. God, Gods, pink unicorns, Shiva, Zeus, Al Gore, Al Sharpton, are all equally capable of getting credit for creating the universe since it is just a matter of opinion.

omgwtfbyobbq 09-07-2007 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtieguy (Post 71290)
let's take a different avenue...a wise man once said there is no such thing as an athiest--how can one prove God's nonexistence..
This wise man must have been around before the advent of the dictionary. ;) Theism, atheism, and agnosticism don't have to do with whether or not we can prove anything regarding said deity or deities. Just that we may or may not believe in them, or not care...

trebuchet03 09-07-2007 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skewbe (Post 71295)
Hey, tell me, how can you prove that it wasn't invisible pink unicorns that created/designed/accidently farted out the universe? Gotta keep that alternative point of view remember, lest you be labeled as biased.
That, is a very good point.... We should teach that in school! Next to FSM. I, for one, have been touched by his noodly appendage. Ramen.:thumbup:


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