Pretty cool, nice bonus that is was cooler...interesting stuff.

I gained 4.4 MPG or so on the run this week. Based on previous test route evaluation, I think that I gained 2MPG with the wheel covers / well covers, and then another 2 with the airtabs...

this is based on the following

before well & wheel covers:
21.5 / 22.5 / 20.5 / 21.5


After covers / Before Airtabs, according to SGII
23.6 / 22.6 / 20.6 / 23.7

After airtabs installed, according to SGII
25.7 / 24.3 / 22.0 / 25.6

Hope this helps.

Any chance you could post up your route?

lovemysan -

I was thinking the same. My car is white, so I could have white air tabs. I am conflicted because they aren't my aesthetic. I should copy the wheel covers first and see what happens.

I think the one thing that's kept me from doing a mod like this is the reversibility. I know I can reverse it with some good old-fashioned elbow grease, but I avoid mods that could effect the paint. That's not a cool excuse :(, but I can't help it.

jeffreymccoy -

Thanks for the weather information. That is a detail that is always in the back of my mind.

CarloSW2

Sure:
From Apex, NC
US1 N
440 Beltline
64 E
95 N
295 Richmond bypass
95 N
495 beltline
95N
MD-100
Snowden River Parkway Marriott Hotel

See it here...map is slightly off, due to the fact that I took the Richmond bypass for example. I dont know how to tell google to map that way..but here is the general route. My directions above are accurate. My mileage read 333 miles when I filled up in Columbia...

I dont have my ftp user credentials on my travel laptop, so I cant post the map pic right now, but use this link to see the route...

Google Maps Route

Actually if you really wanted to make some airtabs then make them in a strip of plastic already properly spaced as one piece and apply the entire tab strip to teh top and sides of the car. Man I am thinking if it can help an F150 with that kind of mileage it should really make a difference in my xB.

I saw an xB flying down the road today and thought the same thing - could be a big deal on the back of that square box.... I am going to apply them to the family chevy express van next. I think they do what they say they do... depends on the shape of the car as to how effective they are.

It inspired me to add three air tabs to each side of my Jeep Liberty...they don't look out of place at all...maybe because there aren't so many. I do have to say that I was in a wicked crosswind with gusts up to ~30+ and the Jeep felt stable.

seems like i have to look into these things again.

one things that i find puzleing is some people place them in FRONT of wheelwells.
while their overall results show an improvement i wonder what's the benefit of placing them there?

as to me it would seem like they would actually cause more air to enter the opening... wouldn't they be better placed BEHIND the wells? so that they reattacht the air that's messed up by the cavity ahead?

perhaps dirt accumulation could give a partial clue as to what goes on aerodynamically either way.

You could duplicate them in sheet metal or plastic...though they claim their design flows better and is more efficient.

Like this:

............/\-/\-/\-/\-/\-/\-/\-/\.................

flow from below...spaced 3 Vs per foot?

If the air is entering the front wells, the idea of placing these in front of them is that air will be directed around them, rather than into them. They would do nothing to help the well airflow if you put them behind the well. They dont cause the air to re-attach to anything, they cause air to be smoothed around an otherwise turbulent separation point.

I think I have basically created a virtual boat-tail with the way these are positioned around the cab and and bed of the truck... you think?

To me it was worth the 2.50 each price. I put 80 of these on my truck. For me to create 80 identical pieces out of sheet metal or plastic would have been mind-numbingly tedious. I am not even sure that I could have done it. So for me, not a rip off at all, (in fact I thought they were very fairly priced)...and not something I could duplicate successfully in my opinion. I have to think that there is something specific to the curves and angles of the tabs, which is not something I could have perfected - certainly not 80 times in a row.

This is some interesting results, but sadly, I agree that I don't like mods that affect the paint... I think it's because I always have the resale value of my car in mind, and every time you mod it, it just keeps going lower and lower.

Hopefully I can figure out a way to use these and spare my paint.

Great results with that f150! I'll be interested to see them keep working consistently.

I agree completely with this point of view. I dont think they will damage the paint at all. I put them on and then relocated 2 of them the next day (the top front wheel well tab was became the bottom well tab). No issues with paint, it came off with some hard pulling, but then re-attached nicely to the new spot. I need to relocate some on the right side of the hood too, they are not lined up just right. Im more concerned about them resticking as strong than I am about the paint. I really dont think it will be a problem.

I make mods knowing that if it needs to be sold, they all come off and the truck is back to original state. I think that will be the case, even withthese tabs. Even if some glue is left behind, some goof-off (or other glue remover) will likely take care of any residue.

nah, guys, most adhesives don't damage the paint. my buddy put a lip on the trunk of his audi and it was there for a couple months, then he moved it and the paint was still fine, so if he were to sell his s4 he could just pull it off with no issues.

its not like its gorilla glue or anything like that, or even scotch tape, most paint safe adhesives usually stay kinda gel-like.

i mean havent you guys ever taken off stickers from your car? even the most stubborn ones just require a little goo-gone and the paint underneath is in better shape than the surrounding paint.

one example i've seen a few times of adhesive damaging paint is vent visors / wind deflectors for windows. i've only seen it on trucks that were 5+ yrs old that probly had them put on when they were new, something happens to one of em somewhere along the way, but the dealer i work for isnt going to be seeling something with a damaged vent visor, or 1 or 3 vent visors. so the remaining vent visors are removed. problem is, the clear coat is gone where the adhesive was at.

finished the leg home this evening. 392 miles. I only achieved 23.1 mpg average on the way home. this includes 25 miles of city driving, but that's not a big deal. I think the big factors in todays mileage were the rain and temp differences. still 23.1 is my 2nd best tank avg.

on the way up my IAT was reading at 100 - 110. today it was 80 - 85. it rained the whole trip.

correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I think both of these had negative impact on FE because:
1. harder to push through water than air
2. harder for tired to roll on wet suface than dry surface - higher rolling resistance
3. lower iat means more dense oxygen input. requiring proportionatly more fuel to maintian programmed air/fuel ratio

this sound right to you guys?

Sounds about right!

jeffreymccoy -

That sounds right to me. The IAT seems to be a big factor in the ScanGauge algorithm. Obviously in the rain, the air is a lot more humid.

When you were driving through the rain, did the raindrop pattern look different? The next time it's raining, you might want to have someone drive your truck while you watch it/film it from another car.

CarloSW2

Which increases resistance past the throttle plate, :p

2000mc -

Well, I think I've figured out a compromise for me. I can get the magnetic sheet that is used for car signs and use that as a base for the airtab. That way, I could move the airtabs anywhere I want on the metal part of the car. For my Saturn, that means the hood and roof. What would be interesting about this is that I could test them in the hood location that jeffreymccoy is using, *or* test them up against the windshield as a windshield wiper turbulence deflector.

To make them more secure, I can also use the interior volume of the airtab to add a stronger magnet (or magnets).

Here is an example of a use for magnetic sheet that gave me the idea :

MAGNETIC CAR BRA for 1999-2002 SATURN SL
https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAGNE...spagenameZWD1V
Attachment 1001

CarloSW2

Carlo, if I ever see your car with the "mag-tabs", it's gonna make it far too easy for me to ummm "borrow" them for my own experiments, :D

2TonJellyBean -

Ooof, now I'll have to take them off when I park somewhere :D !

Hrrmmm, maybe I'll RFID 'em, heh heh heh.

CarloSW2

The drop pattern did not look all that different on the front windshield. It was really hard to tell what the spray behind the truck looked like from my side and rear view mirrors. I saw all kinds of spray coming off every other car, but it was really hard to see mine at all, and when I did, it didnt seem to be as dramatic as other trucks that were on the road.

Without being in a chase car, its really really hard to tell though

does anyone know if it'd make a difference if you just sat around smacking the body with a rubber mallet for awhile? I might be buying a pretty crappy looking CRX HF that wouldn't loose much "sex appeal" from a few hundred smacks with a mallet.

does this have nething to do with a golf ball?

SteadFastStylee -

Ahhhhh, the golf-ball dimple theory. Here are some similar threads on this :

dimple tape?
https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=1508

Aerodynamic grooves/ridges?
https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3267

Winglets and bumpy paint?
https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3478

CarloSW2

I had read quite a few threads on it, but obviosly others have been taking ALOT of interest in this....sadly I'm not sure where my opinion lies now.

In one sense it almost seemed as if to create an improvement similar to the golf ball thing you would need to do it on a correct scale(larger dimples) and near the rear of the vehicle....then in other ways it seems sensible that using bumps instead of depressions more towards the front would help(the whole reason why drafting works)...then in Mitsubishi's tests it seems that bumps near the rear are the answer......

I'm glad I'm learning something either way! :D

Speaking intuitively... Take a look at nature :)

Sharks have dermal denticles (I think that's the right term) - which makes their skin sand paper like; I think on a shark it's called a placiod scale (if you care to search). The shape varies from specie to specie (I'm fairly certain it's a way to identify different species) - but one purpose is that they create small vorticies to reduce drag. They are very small - you really can't see individual ones at all :)

-----
Now, speaking from something I saw at the San Francisco Maker Faire....

Look at the tail end dimples ;)
https://blog.scifi.com/tech/pics/nmg_yellow.jpg

I can't say if they help or not though... but it sure looks cool :p


-------

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my water tunnel picture post earlier.... I don't have a picture (batteries died)... But, tennis ball fuzz has a very similar purpose to golf ball dimples... While not as effective, there was a clear benefit over a "fuzzless" ball ;)

Anyone up for covering their car in some low pile carpet? :p

That's gotta be the funkiest 3 wheeler I ever seen HAHA...My dad owned an old three wheeled milk truck for quite a number of years. Two wheels in back, one in the front..we named it the "Blue Moon". One of our favorite things to do in her was to find long curved well paved side roads and get up to just the right speed to travel along on two wheels.....ahh the good 'ol days LOL

Maybe set up a warm air intake for winter? ...of course in winter you almost have to max out any heat you can find to see much gain.

How to apply airtabs to a hood and why:

https://www.airtab.com/bugs.htm

Do these work on normal cars or only on semis and trucks?

Get a single AirTab and fill it with Bondo and add the Bondo molded AirTab to the body - repeat - prime - paint!

You could make a mold and make them yourself....IF you could find a material to cast with that didn't cost so much...have you priced Bondo lately?

Maybe adobe mud might be cost effective?

I've made and applied some alum vgs (airtab distant cousins) and will post pics and the patterns when I'm done.

You'll be hard pressed to find empirical evidence showing fuel saving capabilities on passenger vehicles.

You will find lots of anectodal claims based on non-scientific observations made by people who have already paid money for them.

Agreed - looks neat.

But look at the aft side of the front wheel arch. They've got dimples there too, where they would be utterly useless.

So they're either (a) blindly throwing aerodynamic darts, hoping some of them work; or, (b) doing it for the "neat-o" factor.

I'm betting on the "neat-o" factor...

I tend to agree.... But I stand by my previous comments - that the concept is sound. The implementation, of course, is where things become questionable - so far, we can be certain nature is the closest to a good implementation :p I will hopefully have some CFD in the next few weeks to bring some non real world data to the table :p

I'm of the same opinion.

I've said before: I've got a box of Airtabs myself. I CAN say conclusively they do NOT save any fuel sitting in the basement :D

I decided they were worth investigating more last year, and had intended to to test them to the best of my abilities in the real world this summer ... but got pre-occupied by the ForkenSwift.

So they're still on the list.

https://www.retroclobber.co.uk/movie-...shirt-logo.gif

^^Maybe they weren't so dumb afterall?