Nope you get the oxygen from the air that combines with the gasoline. All the O2 that was generated with the Hydrogen just recombines with it so it contributes a net zero to added oxygen but it does add combustion heat and a better flame to ignite the gasoline.

The generator gets hot because of the high resistance of the water - by lowering it you reduce the heat I.E. a lead acid battery can produce a lot of gas without really getting too hot with only a few amps once you get the battery voltage over 14.25 volts. The problem with a lead battery is the wasted 2+ volts per cell because of the lead acid chemistry. By using platinum electrodes and sulfuric acid you reduce the plate voltage to a minimum - the voltage that results is what is required to separate the H from the O.

Yes I have built hydrogen generators but I used salt water which was not the way to go - never thought of using a lye to increase conduction either. I also have a fuel cell PEM that makes a good amount of Hydrogen and Oxygen separated by the membrane using distilled water at about 3.2 volts and up to 3 amps quite quickly with little heat. It also recombines the H and O and puts out about 2 volts and consumes the gases at a rate proportionate to the current load on the cell.

Could the reason you're seeing steam be related to the fact that your pressure is low? Your drawing a little bit of vacuum, right? Vacuum will lower your boiling point?

flapdoodle -

Have you determined a way to measure the "health" of the electrolyte. In old-school non-sealed batteries, you can use a hydrometer like this :

How is the hydrometer used in measuring the charge of a car battery?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0034749AAt2iE8
If I make a "fresh batch" of the solution and record it's reading using a hydrometer, then I should be able to gauge the degradation of the solution in the cell over time.

What do you think?

CarloSW2

I use litmus paper to check the pH of the solution. When the cell degrades, the amperage drops and the solution gets muddy looking. I have a panel mount LED ammeter on the way that will be mounted on the HHO "control panel".

I fear a hygrometer will not tell me much because there is no way of telling exactly what salt mixture is in the solution. For example, when you use baking soda, it starts to change to NaOH immediately upon applying power. You can watch the pH go from 7 to 10 in a short time.

flapdoodle -

Thanks, I will go get some litmus paper.

CarloSW2

Started reading this forum and decided to join. I have little mechanicle knowledge but have looked into learning about HHO. The best source for building and installing an injection unit that I have found without spending any money can be found at https://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf and https://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Guide.pdf

If you have not seen these, it is worth a quick look. I hope to build one in spite of everyone I mention it to telling me it won't work. Only one way to find out in my mind.

I like the plate system. Easy, cheap, and probably very effective.

Ok this is my first post. Been reading along and would like to throw some thoughts into the bag. I am NEWBE to all this and would love to get a good design system like Water4gas. You mentioned about the o2 sensors and I have been reading that this is a big hurtle. I have a 95 Cavalier LS which I will be experimenting on. I found this guys site regarding EFEI sensors that he makes. www.pwmpower.com may help solve that problem also there is after Market chips on EBay that trick the o2 sensor into leaning the fuel mixture. Will this work? One more thing since we are ultimately trying to get better MPG would it not be a good idea to take off the catalytic converter in the exhaust since the hho is burning so clean? I mean I would piss in my gas tank if I thought it would help!!! BTW GREAT SITE. We need to get all those HHO YOUTUBE guys in hear as well. MAYBE make a contest or something. You could call it "put up or shut up"!!! OK im done!

Spence -

I am really impressed with the PDFs and the YouTubes that Smack setup :

Part 1: The Intro to Smack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxPQd...x=0&playnext=1

CarloSW2

2 efie or not
 

What I want from Youtube is actual information without the blurry pix and a noisy motor drowning out the commentator.
try this link https://www.thermo1.com/hyboost.htm

although you can also find a wealth of experimentation at energetic forums.

Thanx rangerbentman for the link another great site. I also did look at Smack's unit and he has posted his whole design on his Web page... VERY COOL... Doesn't pressure you to buy anythiing from him....Awesome...when I hit the lotto or save a bunch of money with my hho unit I'll drop him some danaro!! For that I am going with his design.

my goal is to forget what side my gas tank is on when I go to fill up my Cavalier LOL

It HAS been done:

https://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Ot...cts/mrgalleria

"Lastly, to test Alaskastar's concept, a liquid containing nitrogen was used (urine). On running, almost from startup, heavy bubbling was visible. Engine ran 18 minutes. Test repeated with same results."

That bluetech stuff for diesel emissions isn't that far from pee.

Sorry to take this OT a little bit, but this video was in the playlist and might be the most important one there.

Anyway, I'm convinced that Smack has this stuff pretty well dialed. If ever there is a good place to start, Smack's generator looks like the top of the list to me.

Pete is called potential energy.

When you put gasoline in your car its not some inigma that it drives. "But energy is coming from nothing?!" Well obviously not, its a chemical reaction. Just like gasoline burning, an HHO generator is creating its product through a chemical reaction, and just like gasoline, in the end the water is "used." Although the production of HHO does not consume at the rate a car engine does, if you run it long enough you should run out of water.

Matter is not being created or destroyed. Energy is not spawning from nothing. The laws of physics still hold true.

In addition the fact of the matter remains that realistically a HHO Generator is just a way to convert electric power into a form that can be used by an engine. Perhaps the power lost is more efficently used by the engine. (But I don't really have any data to support that.)

Please do a bit of research prior to calling people liars, as hundreds of people, myself included, have claimed to have had successful runs of HHO.

Is it possible that this forum and several others like it are run by cultists that are being influenced by extraterrestrials who are intending to keep humans from developing efficient energy systems in order to destroy the planet and make a take over that much easier? Or maybe that's the govt? Same thing?

The extraterrestrials fly in spaceships and don't use energy as we understand it...they use techniques like like "pulse and glide" to make their saucers fly around. :rolleyes:

The cult members are trying to emulate them.

Thank You
 

I just wanted to thank all the people who got into this long and very informative discussion about the use of HHO, I have learned allot from everyone. My new used car is comming soon and be it diesel or gas, I will build an HHO generator and I will post every picture during construction and testing for everyone. It seems allot of companies are trying to give a bit of magic to the way HHO works, from my studies I believe it is a suppliment. Petroleum based fuel will not go away, but with HHO it will burn cleaner and save us money by raising our gas mileage.

My HHO generator will use 8 stainless steel wall plates from Home Depot. I will use a PWM pulse wave modulator in the 40 amp range, which can be bought for around 70 dollars at ebay. I'm going to put it in 4 inch PVC, with circulatory plumbing to efficiently move the gas off the plates and keep a stable temperature. I still have to experiment, I don't know if I'm going to use baking soda or vinegar as an electrolyte. From what I'v read at Utube this should give me 1 litre per minute of HHO.

IF I had a beater car, I would try it out...

I think the Smackbooster looks like a better design.

I'm curious about two things.
One, Water4Gas uses a little bit of wire, claiming better production than plates. I can't see how, but there are some units on EEEEybay where some cat has used two wire coils, (but looks built by a drunken hillbilly) and I've read of them being as long as 200'. I would think this would be better than one foot of wire?
Agreeing with Snax, I like the Smackmeister's unit and think it makes sense, although I've read that biggest isn't always best, so that's probably a maximum plate size or thereabouts.
HUGE kudos to Smackman for putting that up for free.
The second thing is Smack mentions NOT to create a vacuum on the bottle such as tapping into the manifold directly in order to not suck water out of the bottle. But the Water4Gas guys do exactly that for the diesel setup. I believe that there is some suction in a diesel manifold, is there not?
Edit: Oh, and as another note, I believe that the generators using just two SS bolts would be the least effective. But wouldn't ya know there's a cat putting them on ebay starting at over $200.00...sheesh!

A nother
 

Have a look at the
https://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Hotsabi.pdf site as it has another way of doing the same thing as smacks booster. I am currently building one to play with.:D

its funny that no one (on the first page anyway) realizes that this isn't a substitute for gasoline but rather a way to increase the efficiency of the engine.

I found it odd too, but chalked it up to wishful thinking on the readers part.

HHO cells
 

A buddy and I have been researching this topic for almost a year now. We built torches that melt everything from aluminum (yeah its not a tough metal) to stainless steel (316 gauge).

We failed with over many of our cells due to over heating, our new idea comes from the pdf link below, 6 cells in series to lower the voltage across the cells, aka less heat. We also have O2 modifiers to control the A/F. when we complete the construction and installation of the cells, i will post results.

A for record right now: I have a 95 geo prizm 1.6L

interstate (65-70mph) max mpg is 39. (this mpg is rather high as this the mileage i obtained on a 356 mile trip and drove through the mountains in Tennessee and coasted as much as possible)
state hwy (55mph) max mpg is 35
city (varies mph) max mpg 32.5
combined 34 mpg.

I will base my results on the maximum mileage I have obtained. I am an efficient coaster while i drive and am light on the pedals more so than ever. I will only consider this project success if I exceed these maximums.

Considering the majority of my driving is on a state hwy 100 miles per day 5 days a week, the state hwy will be the first results posted.


check out the following link:
https://www.theorionproject.org/en/do...lyAndBoyce.pdf

Darn, I allready had those. I'm building quite the collection now.
Anyone got anything on the wire question? I'm thinking of surface area. Using 200' of wire x dia. = ? compared to 4" x 10" (40 sq. in.) of shimstock, perhaps there would be more surface area to create bubbles. OTOH, I"m thinking that the roundness of the wire surface could give less for a bubble to stay attached to...and then what about the electromagnetic effect of the current passing through the wire? Or waitaminnit, the current isn't really going anywhere, is it?
So much more research needed, so little time. (Saw $4/gal. for regular here today)

Hey, there's an idea to work on: instead of using a coil pulsing to release bubbles from plates, maybe there could be a combination of your SS coils producing the pos. and neg. for the gas production, but induced with current to double as your electromagnet. I said induce because transformers work this way. No?

anyone getting a faith based sense of deja vu?

Find love at first day
 

Thanks, this forum is great. I am new here and you guys give me info i was looking for. bit about self, i bought water4gas book but find rather difficult to build so i look for complete unit and find one and put the kit about two week ago.

I like the kit so i become marketer of kit in dallas TX. I am mechanic for about two year now so i know bit about car. I did my best on reserch on HHO generator but today i learned a lot.

I figure cars run cleaner and burn gas close to 100% so if cars got high miles on it,definitely make the runs better. so far 94 ford tauras and 96 surburban get better mile, cleaner emmission etc. I am convinced that HHO restore engine performance for sure. Also i am kind of agree on that HHO generator draw more energy from alternator which run by engine so why save gas?
Physics law? So it might be possibility gas mile decrease, yea true if engine is running effient to begin with.

Basically how effient engine burn gasoline(i heard typical car waste 20%) and how much HHO help burn the gasoline which otherwise wasted and how much extra energy it take to operate HHO generator.

Do the math and presto.

The kit cost me $198+S-H and simple(cheap looking) devise, And i can forgo fuel injection cleaning($60), catalic converter, inspection related mightmare, longer engine life, MMM good deal to me.
Let me know any saving on newer cars so that I gonna know it worth it on more fuel effient, less wearout engine. I do the same too.

Thanks

Hey all, Just heard about HHO in the last week or so and have been looking for some good generator designs. I had a thought (maybe I'll try it and let you all know) How about using SS steel wool or scrub pads instead of plates? There would be huge amounts of surface area. The only drawback I could see is that it would degrade too quickly. Any thoughts?

New guy (2nd post). A couple of resources that I didn't see mentioned here.
This site: https://waterpoweredcar.com/ has a nice history of hydrogen powered car experimenters. The guy also has a museum on water powered cars and a separate site you can buy parts to build your own generator. He has kits to build a pulse wave modulator. I would also urge anyone who is serious about HHO to join the Yahoo groups watercar and hydroxy. There is a compilation of hydroxy generator designs and many people have been experimenting for sometime. Lots and lots of info. The best hydrogen generators seem to be the ones with multiple cells. As mentioned above they operate cooler. Ozzie Freedom is marketing basically a Bill Lang design or WWII airplane water injection system. The difference is the use of H2O2. Ozzie freedom is on the Yahoo list. Many of the people on the Yahoo list are also trying to replicate Stan Meyers no gasoline - 100% hydrogen powered car. Some have had moderate success powering lawn mower engines for short periods of time. Most people on the Yahoo list are also using potassium hydroxide for HHO production.

more info
 

I've been running hydrogen for about 3 weeks....lots of changes and more to come before I will get a good grip on the actual mileage. One of the guys at work made a 5 plate system. Ran it for about 200 miles. He got very little gain....He said it was about same as without hydro....maybe 1 mpg. He has a Montero.

I would love to be able to read the water 4 gas books but i do not have the money to buy them would someone please email them to me. tonya_alicia@hotmail.com

Wow what a surprise you are selling them!!

Got mine on the test bench today, using distilled water and sodium hydroxide. (very little of that too) It ran 30 amps right off and slowly went up to 32-35. I had what turned out to be a 24 oz. bottle which it filled in 30 sec. I added water until the amps went down to 25 (a LOT of water) and it took 33 seconds to fill the bottle. First case temp was 138 degrees F. and second test it went to 122 degrees. (sitting on a table, not in engine bay) Mine is a modified Smack Booster.

ready to turn it off
 

I have a pretty good base line on my hydrogen cell "on". Check out my jeep on the garage. I just turned the Fuel Cell "off". I will take a reading this weekend. Next post is the kicker. This will start to prove the system on my jeep. I'm not super optimistic. I'm wondering if my mileage will go up with the cell off! If so then I have a nice electrical setup for my fog lights!

My spin on SMACK
 

Well I decided to try a variation of the SMACK theme. Here are a couple pictures of the first trial assembly. I may have a bit more edge leakage with my neutral plates so close together. I did not connect any neutral plates like SMACK dos. I currently have 5 neutral plates on each side so there are 6 spaces for the voltage to drop. I seems like a fair starting point from what I have read. I will try sealing the vertical edges with tape. I was intending for 4 inch pipe but this fit in three inch. The plates are 2.5 inches by 6 inches. It is just 304. I got lucky scrounging and got the stainless from a recycler for $5 and the sheet metal shop sheared it up for free. I am out less than $20 at this point.


https://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08245/hboost1690.jpg.xs.jpg

https://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08245/hboost3915.jpg.xs.jpg

I still struggle with this concept. It seems like converting ethanol to hydrogen would be a lot more productive. Is anyone on this list currently doing that?

answer
 

probably no. It's not the way to go. Maybe a slim chance if you can lean the engine a small amount...the court is still out on that one.

A cell does seem to do positive things to the engine....more oil pressure for me...about 10-15. Does this convert into a cooler engine, cleaner engine....maybe....your guess is as good as mine. I would like to know the answer if it doesn't come from a ding a ling, 50% increase, toilet boy.

Wondering about how much space you expect to leave at the top to allow gas collection and how you will keep the electro from exiting?

hydrogen cell off
 

Look at my garage figures / gas log !!! My mpg went up with "hydrogen cell off"!!! I'm starting to feel the hype of water to gas is a scam...at least somewhat...maybe a sliver better with a EFIE unit but nothing like the stupid ad's promote!

I have an idea...I'm going to test. When the car is in cruise mode...no hydrogen. About 10 seconds before arriving at the base of a hill, turn the hydrogen unit on. It takes about 5-10 seconds for a good hydrogen flow. I have a kill switch that I can turn on and off. Leave the cell on until a second or two before I reach the peak. Turn it off. This is for a car without a EFIE. I have a funny feeling that injecting the hydrogen while the car is in cruise mode is causing too much oxygen for the sensor and it's using more gas then neccessary in that mode. My thought....adding the extra fuel in hard work mode, for a short period of time, may "not" give the computer time enough to respond with extra gasoline fuel on the hill, yet give the engine a little extra juice via hydrogen. The oxygen sensor may see normal emissions until roughly the time it arrives at the top of the hill...Florida only has small hills so they usually only last 15 to 30 seconds....when the emissions go up...the car will be in the end process and going back into non hydrogen / cruise mode via the off mode. If a scan gauge shows better mileage with the hydrogen "on" while going up a hill then there may be another slant to this whole thing....turn on the hydrogen just before moving or accelerating, (say, at a light) and turning it off at cruising speed or idle. Just a thought...it might counter balance the hydrogen lean situation with the acceleration / rich situation. A type of pulse and glide.

Does anyone have a scan gauge and fuel cell to test how the car responds with quick bursts of hydrogen in "hill mode"? My jeep is a 1992 so I don't believe I can add a scan gauge. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I was wondering about that, maybe a regulator attached to the throttle that controlls voltage/throttle position? my other thought was a rising rate fuel pressure regulator (designed for forced induction use, works off of manifold pressure/vacuum) that will allow more H2 with lower manifold vacuum (higher load). perhaps a combination of both.

possibly use a rising rate regulator for the fuel, set it up for lean at cruise, full pressure under load instead of full pressure at cruise and even higher pressure under load.