I was enjoying the exchange with Gene, and said that I appreciated what he did. I dont have any reason to doubt his employment claims or experience. In my opinion there is no real reason to lie on a post like this, we are just having a discussion. I didnt really like the way the post was going when it got down to name calling, but I found the heated debate at the beginning interesting. I am not interested in condemning anyone for their lifestyle, but am interested in peoples views, employment, and what they are doing to save energy regardless of the reason behind it. The way I see it there are multiple reasons to save energy, so why not go for it and learn as much as we can.

James,

my thoughts EXACTLY!

it is enjoyable and fair to listen and consider both views of a given subject. certainly we all can learn from each other regardless of those who think they know it all.

name calling has no place here in MHO.

When the "cats" first came out in the 1970s I did not like them. They were picky, clogged easily (in part because people used leaded gas in cars that had them) and the engine controls were really primitive. My first car was a 1973 Nova which I think had no cat converter and could run leaded gasoline.

My next few cars were equipped with cats but did not have the ECUs that really do a cat converter justice. So the single stage converters of that time did not last long and often were annoying in how they limited performance.

Things have come a long way. ECUs are more intelligent and more intelligently designed. Two stage cats work well. My Yaris has VVT and a lot of other slick featurers which make it reasonably efficient.

I wish I could buy an early 1970s car, retrofit it with something like Megasquirt and TBI and then do a few other things to run close to "pre detonation" and use a wide band sensor to get a good "lean burn" profile. No cat converter, but leave the factory pollution controls be.

Leave on the EGR (which helps with detonation and NOx) and PCB (which helps with oil control and hydrocarbons) and see what I can do. Might run like a dog but in time it would get great mileage without a flaky carb and vacuum controls.

This wish shows my feelings towards ECUs - they have come into their own. The converter is like taxes or grey hair, you're gonna have to deal with it.

What's odd is that I sometimes run across vehicles without cat converters, mainly motorcycles. I can smell the difference right away. I sorta miss the "old" cars, at least until I remember tons of them in one place all idling. Let's face it; they stank. I can't imagine going back to those days with rich mixtures and... leaded gasoline.

In some ways the environmentalists have made things better. I just wish they'd knock off the Class Warfare and focus on people.

Gene

There is nothing wrong with cats, egr and other subsystems in a car or motorcycle..

I just put booze gas in my 3 for the first time this week. And yes I remember gas-a-crab from the late 70's and early 80's. Been down this road before. My Mazda 3 had some idle issues over it untill the puter reset. MPG the same from what I can see.

Its all symatics....