Washing Machine Advice
 

my washer bit the dust last night. never bought one, not new at least. with a growing family, a new and larger one is in order.

any help w/ what brand, where to buy, energy star(or not), etc would be greatly appreciated. btw, price IS a concern, but i could charge it on my sears card @ no interest for 12 months. then, pay it off when the gov't charity(i mean eco stimulus) rebate arrives.

thanks.

I bought a Frigidaire washing machine 10 years ago and its still running fine- which surprises me because it was the cheapest model I could find. I only wash with cold water and still it always gets everything clean.

I doubt that it conserves much water though.

The front loaders are the ones to look at if you want to save water- but expect to spend a lot of money...

IMO, from what I've heard about available US market front loaders on various forums, i) only get one if you really, really, really want a front loader. ii) buy one from a store that has extended warranties, and get the longest you can afford.

I always check with ConsumerReports.org when I make an appliance purchase. (I think it was $30 to subscribe online.) Here's some of what they had to say:

"Quick Picks

For fine performance and efficiency:

? LG WM0642H[W] , $900
? Frigidaire Gallery GLTF2940F[S] , $650, CR Best Buy


Both washing machines cleaned clothes very well. The LG holds more clothes and was gentler on them, but the Frigidaire is faster, taking 30 minutes less than the LG to wash a load on similar cycles. The Frigidaire can be stacked with the tested dryer models LEQ2152E[S] and Affinity AEQ6000E[S].

Best if your budget is tight:

? GE WJRE5500G[WW] , $480, CR Best Buy
? Estate ETW4400T[Q] , $400


For hundreds less than the best high-efficiency top-loaders, these two top loaders were very good at washing and were reasonably efficient. The GE has a stainless-steel tub and a fabric-softener dispenser. The Estate was a bit gentler on clothes. We lack repair-history data for Estate, though it is made by Whirlpool, a reliable brand. Both the GE and Estate were relatively noisy. "

As an aside, for my money, I never buy an extended warranty.

Regards,
Bill

yeah, you wouldn't need an extended warranty with a top loader and on a great majority of products it's a waste of money.

Get a front loader. It gets your clothes cleaner (way it spins), uses less water, and your clothes last longer. If you can get one with a second rinse cycle, by all means get it.

I had a top-loader with stainless steel basket (they DO get clothes cleaner) with a second rinse cycle. My clothes wore longer, and felt SO much cleaner. It got sold when we moved. I WILL buy a new one when the one we were given bites the dust - with 2nd rinse cycle.

I go to the laundromat, for about $5 I can wash everything I wore in 3 weeks time, in some nice front loading washing machines, and dry it all, fold it, read the news paper, use their wireless internet, and when the machine brakes someone else fixes it while I use the one next to it.
Anyone know how much they spend on water and electricity to wash and dry a load of cloths? or time spent doing small loads, one load at a time? I can get that 3 week load washed, dried and folded in less then an hour and a half, and an hour of that I spent reading.

a big thanks to all of you!

I hear what you're saying, I've tried figuring out how much we actually pay per load at home, and it comes damn close to laundromat prices in winter. In summer it's half price 'coz I can hang everything out to dry (and uses less energy to warm wash in summer). If I was faced with paying about $25 a month for a washer and drier financed over 5 years and only lasting 5 years on top of that*, I'd probably go to the laundromat instead. However, when a family needs 3 or 4 loads a week, it starts to look better, since the extra trips out and time out of the house would be adding up to too much. One hint though in a family sitch, buy everyone their "own" towels, make them responsible for them, and hide all the rest until you get guests... otherwise you get the bathroom knee deep in sodden towels that nobody knows who put there, and you end up doing two or three loads of towels a week. This way everyone hangs their towel up to dry after using it, and it can just go in the wash with their clothes every week.

(* I don't by the way, I've had good luck with $10 used ones and the odd minor fix)

In a dream world . . <sigh>

The problem here is that nobody in this house seems to want to bother with doing laundry until everything is dirty!

Child: "I don't have any clean clothes!"

Parent: "Seems like taking that huge pile of dirty clothes out to the laundry would be a good start."

So anyway, we have been around and around the question of front loaders, and every time we have to conclude that we could save more money by keeping the top-loader or replacing it with another inexpensive one when it breaks. It's just one of those terrific new technologies that really doesn't save anybody any money if they are just frugal about it to begin with.

Well in some respects that's a good problem to have, it gets done in full loads then I guess. My nieces would drive me spare, they have the one or two favourite tops or skirts, and if it's dirty and they want to wear it out somewhere... they'll just put that one dang piece of clothing in the washer by itself, even when everything else is dirty too.


Actually I don't really know why they're having such trouble with them, they've had front loaders as prcatically the "standard" washing machine in europe for over 20 years, top loaders were old-hat when I was a kid. That said, though while I care about saving energy, I've recently become dubious about the benefits of saving water, locally at least. A municipal services guru was talking about it in a news article and he was making it clear that saving water in the long run doesn't save money, there's a kind of bulk discount thing, they'll close down processing and pumping stations such that it becomes a more precious commodity... when you think that this also will pare service availability to the bone with practically no fallover capacity because it's like emergency water restrictions are already in effect, then contamination or disruption of the water supply could be very serious. Since this bit of Ontario here doesn't have a particular problem with access to water, it's only the question of processing it and rendering it potable that is applicable to conservation. However, should cutting back there result in higher degrees of human risk, zero consumer savings and potential that it costs 80% of the energy* to deliver 50% of the water anyway, then I really can't be bothered being too careful.

(*You need the big pumps to push it down the big pipes, but should consumption not demand the capacity of big pipes, you can use smaller pipes and smaller pumps, but have to work them hard because frictional losses are higher....)

Yup, where we live, water is not really an issue. We just get so damned much of it falling from the sky and running down the rivers that it's hardly on the radar. The largest benefit for us would be in the energy savings of reduced drying times from the faster spin cycles most of the front loaders have. I just wish we could find a standalone spin dryer that worked as well, but everything short of industrial grade stuff looks like it's basically crap from what I can see.

Best one I've ever purchased, Fisher-Paykel. Very programmable, saves power and water, and cleans better than my last maytag.

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/

Sold at Lowes.

well, we decide on THE most efficient washer at Sears for less than $1k. it's a kenmore(whirlpool) front loader on sale for $699 down from $799.

AND...picked up a $269 pedestal on clearance for $50!!!
colors do not match, so what!

it hurts, but got the 12 months w/ no interest.

IMHO, front loaders are junk. This one lasted 4 years and broke twice. It would have been worse but I got it for only $300 new. I had issues with the pump and door. Finally it burned the main board and few other parts. It was used lightly by only 2 people. I asked my mother the queen of clean and she said wash quality was ho hum. Now my washer is not like every other washer, I'm sure there are ones that last longer and are built better. Here's the main problem with the new "breed of washers". Cheaply designed and constructed, planned obsolescence built in(designed not to last), electronic controls. You want whats good, go find the cheapest washer with a manual control knob. It has the least parts and the more dependable technology. Of course my POV is going to be to save money, with a resonable expectation of cleanlines. My latest tactic is to spend $25 or less on a washer. Why? Because even the new ones break! I've got a spare in the garage that cost me $13.

He's a pic of my front loader, it was very satisfying and I found $3 in change in the process.
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...b1e3c6dc91.jpg

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...89dd1313ae.jpg

And its $25 replacement. 1970 GE washer. Cast iron direct drive transmission, I felt like an old man after moving this thing be myself, it easily weighed double what it replaced. My how the mighty do fall. Imagine your grandad taking your spot on the rowing team. I did have to make on repair but it was incredibly easy to work because it had something odd called a FRAME. A hose had to be reconnected. I sold this washer after 1.5 years for $25 and replaced it with a newer high capacity washer thats mechanical. Its a twin to the one in storage.
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...cf9787fd08.jpg

If you want what I consider the most durable simplest washer you should consider a staber. Its all mechanical.

People often don't pay much attention to how much it costs to run a washer. And over the lifetime of the washer, that can make a real difference. Two very common costs that are overlooked with washers are: 1) How much water the washer uses. Many cheaper washers use a lot of water to do the laundry. This might not sound like much of a cost, until you realize that your hot water heater has to HEAT that much water (unless you wash in cold, which often doesn't work so good), and the energy to heat water can be costly. and 2) The costs of "drying the cloths" can be considerable. And while you might not think the washer has much to do with drying costs, better "spinning the cloths dry" (which is usually a feature of better washers) can make a huge difference in drying costs.

NOTE: If you don't mind a 3rd appliance (used between the washer and the dryer), there are stand alone "spin driers" which do a VERY GOOD job of spinning the cloths dry (thereby taking the task of spinning well away from the washer, allowing you to use a much cheaper washer and still get good results). You still need a normal (heat) drier after a spin drier, but you will save a huge amount of energy doing good spin drying first. And as an added bonus, good "spin drying" works as a natural (no chemical needed) "fabric softener", as the spinning process removes dissolved minerals (and other chemicals in your wash water) that can make cloth "stiff" (normal heat drying does NOT remove those minerals, but rather "bakes them on" when the heat evaporates the water off the cloths).

FWIW: SPIN dryers aren't very common/popular in the USA (but are somewhat common in parts of Europe). However, there are a few places you can buy them in the USA. For example, I have the following spin drier at my home (~ $150 new, including shipping), and I very much like it. It's manual start/stop (no automated controls), and only spins about 1/2 a wash load at a time. But overall, it seems to do a good job of removing water (and the dissolved minerals in that water) quickly and using only a trivial amount of electricity. This greatly speeds up the later drying cycle (which also saves a lot of energy your normal heat drier would otherwise use). And, as already mentioned, my cloths are now a lot "softer", now that I've been spin drying them after washing (and before doing the final drying in our traditional heat based cloths drier).

https://www.laundry-alternative.com/p...pin_Dryer.html

DracoFelis,

very interesting. i wonder if the spin cycle causes most of the wear and tear on washers? your spin dryer would prove to be most valuable if that is the case.

The spin cycle of the Fisher-PayKel can be set as high as 1000rpm! The clothes are very nearly dry after that. Also this machine does not have a transmission and uses a direct drive dc motor for agitation and spinning. I'm impressed so far...

What ever you do...don't git the Maytag Neptune front loader washer...unless yer the tinkering type and have money to fix all the problems they had with those.

I got 2 fer next to nothing that I'm tearing apart to learn from. Tech works great...when it's running. One already had most of the parts replaced with the better ones. So I've got lots of modding to do to the other. It only uses 4 gallons of water per cycle. So with the wash and 3 rinse cycles yer only using 12 gallons of water. That's what most top load washers use just fer the wash cycle. ;)

Ok, while I don't disagree with that argument, it comes down to just how much that energy savings really adds up to. For example, just on the basis of high speed spinning:

• Our cost per kWh = $0.09
• The typical electric dryer uses 2.5kWh
• One hour of drying time works out to 22.5 cents/hour

So, using those figures, if we were to spend only an extra $400 for a front loader or high speed spin washer, it might take half as long to dry a load, and would take $400/11.25cents = 3554 loads of laundry to make up that difference.

Ok, so that doesn't account for water heating, so let's throw that in too:

• A conventional washer can use up to 40 gallons of water. (most use less)
• A front loader or energy efficient washer may use as little as 10 gallons
• If the cold water input is 60 OF and the heated water temperature is 105 OF, the difference in temperature in this case is 45 OF. One gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds and requires 8.34 BTU to raise the temperature one degree. In this case, the energy required to heat one gallon of water is 8.34 ? 45 = 375 BTU which is 0.110 kwh or 0.99 cents per gallon -- we'll call it one cent per gallon.

So 40 gallons heated 45 degrees F will cost about 45 cents per hot load. But most people I know don't wash everything in hot water, so I think it would be fair to assume an average here, including warm loads, of only 22.5 degrees of water heating, or about 22.5 cents per load. Compared to a water efficient front loader that uses only 10 gallons, we are spending an extra 17 cents per load.

Ok, taking the savings of 11.25 cents on drying and the savings of 17 cents on water heating for a total of 28.25 cents per load, it would take 1415 loads of laundry to make up the additional expense of $400 on a washer. That's allot of loads for the average household - and there is no guarantee that the washer will even last that long. Plus it will most certainly be well out of warranty by that time.

My calculations are also heavily skewed toward highest water use for the conventional machine and lowest use for a smaller capacity front loader. Plus the assumption is that drying time is cut in half, but I'm betting most people really only save about 1/3 - and most loads don't take the suggested hour that I used as a basis. So the cost savings are unlikely to even match what I have figured here. (But please feel free to check my math!)

That said, I think the standalone spin dryers are a far better option for the money if they work well. But, the last time I went looking for one, the only ones available were cheap countertop crap, and the others were unobtainium. That web site had them listed as out of stock for months. Perhaps I will have to try one out now.

check craigslist always a deal to be found and cheap~

I still don't think you can beat the price of a laundry mat, at $150 per year in quarters (less then $3 a week), I can get everything clean while I read the news paper, in the summer they have A/C, in the winter it's nice and warm.

Probably the most efficient washer/dryer unit in the world, but not available stateside (go figure). The NA-VR1000 heat-pump washer/dryer.
https://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/off...n050926-3.html

Ok, here's some new math to add to my previous post.

We found a front loader that interest us for $629. Energy Trust of Oregon offers a $100 cash rebate on one of it's efficiency, plus we could use a $180 tax credit. This drops our investment to $349. That's not a large savings over the $400 cited before, but our current washer can probably be sold for somewhere between $50-$100, so that brings us down to $250-$300 end cost to get the new washer. That reduces our payback period to around 1000 loads using my earlier data.

1000 loads is actually starting to make sense for us since we probably average 5 loads per week, that would make it pay for itself in 3.8 years. But there is one other thing that I left out of my previous calculation that improves the payback: Detergent.

The HE compatible detergent we have found runs roughly 1/2 the cost of a standard powder like Tide. We can buy enough of the HE detergent to do 1000 loads at a cost savings of $75, so that effectively shortens the payback period on a front loader even more, likely giving a positive return on the investment in around 2-3 years depending on our use.

We... (who am I kidding?)...
SHE washes our clothes. We use only cold, the hot isn't even connected. We get water from a private well and discharge into a private septic leach field. Our water costs are what is needed to run the well pump. Our per wash costs couldn't be much lower so savings potential here are negligible.
She chose a front load when the fleamarket top load was taken off life support (I did save the bungee used to assure oscillation during the agitation sequence). It has a delay start timer to allow washing at night when the off-peak electric rate kicks in. It spins so much more water out that hang dry time is no longer than an electric drier cycle so the dryer is frequently unused for months on end.
Less detergent, less softener, quieter operation, doesn't walk across the floor to the end of its water supply 'leash'...
It wasn't as cheap as a used appliance orphan, but I paid for it once. I don't get reminded how cheap I was each time another seal let loose or the gear case leaked lube all over the floor, or another solenoid failed and flodded the basement.
Will it last 20 years? 15 more to go...

We have a Maytag wringer washer that we bought used over 30 years ago. Only use it in summer now, but it washes as many loads as you care wash in the same water, and is really a low energy lilfetime applieance.

How many even know what one is??

Sounds something like the twin-tub my parents had, washer one side, spinner the other, and a wringer mounted one end. Think it had a paddle wheel type thing the size of a serving plate for an agitator.

Wow, it just got better. In addition to the $100 state rebate and $180 state tax credit, we can also get a $70 rebate from our local utility.

All we need now is the damn money to buy the washer! :P

We just bought a new washer and dryer from Sears the other day. Our current dryer is working just fine, but the washer is starting to show its age. Not bad though for a 13 year old washer and even older dryer.

We got another Kenmore set that are "energy star". Apparently they use 11-13gallons whereas normal use ~45gallons. You can also turn energy star in on your taxes...

We finally got our tax refund on thursday and promptly put down some money on a Maytag MHWZ600TW to be delivered next week. We chose it because of it's very high spin speed of 1250 rpm and MEF of 2.42.

Home Depot seems to have the best deals on most brands right now, particularly if you want to extend the warranty. $99 for 4 years is pretty stellar on that count. Hopefully we won't need to use it.

Anyway, our net cost on it ends up being just over $400 after all credits and rebates, and $75 from the sale of our existing washer.

But if it sucks butt in any way, I'll be sure to report it here. ;)

I forgot to mention that for about $15 worth of 3/4" plywood, a 2x4, and an hour of my time, I built a pedestal for it already that is 16" tall. It's nothing fancy, lacking a working drawer (which I can add later), but it is open in the front and saves $184 over what they are trying to get for the shiny metal ones in the stores.

I would strongly second the
https://www.laundry-alternative.com/p...pin_Dryer.html
We got one about a month ago. I had intended using it for swimming suits, but thought I would give it a try with the washer. We have a big LG front loader that spins at 1300 rpm. Even after that I can get 1/2 gallon of water out of the clothes. It is pretty amazing, I just wish it were larger.

Even if you line dry this makes that much faster. With non-cotton they come out almost completely dry, cotton wrings out the most water, but still takes the longest to dry.

Ok, we've had our front loader, Maytag MHWZ400TQ, for two weeks now, and here are a few observations:

1. Drying Times: They are in fact reduced significantly for most items. Fleece blankets? Five minutes in the dryer, then just fold them and put them away. Denim on the other hand does not give up the moisture as easily. Jeans still take nearly as long to dry and feel as damp as with the top-loader - unless we select the Max-extract 1250rpm spin option (which for some unknown reason is not the default), in which case jeans take about 2/3 the time. For the most part however, drying times are cut in half.

2. Cleaning Ability: Heavily soiled items like my work jeans and daughters canvas shoes do not get as clean without running them through a 2nd time or using the 'whites' cycle. Perhaps minor prescrubbing the more soiled spots would eliminate this issue, but the second time through likely doesn't use much more energy or water than the old machine anyway, so the only really loss here is time.

3. Noise: We've noticed that even our non-rated for second floor use model is significantly more quiet than the top loader through all stages of washing. But for us this is a minor point anyway with it sitting on concrete in the garage.

4: Smell: Some people complain of their machines getting a mildew smell after a very short time, however we have yet to experience anything in that regard. My opinion is that those who get the smell really don't use their machines very often, vs. our 7-10 loads per week or more! When not in use, the door is left open. But even our old top loader has a mild mildew smell to it. I think people are just being picky and unrealistic here or perhaps they aren't taking their clothes out right away.

5: Water Use: Significantly down. Running a hot cycle, I would never even have considered taking a shower with the old washer running. Now it's hardly even a factor.

Overall we are quite pleased with it. Although the wash times are now 25-50% longer, the tradeoff in drying time makes it about even, with lower overall energy use. (But the 180F sanitizing cycle requires a full 3 hours to complete!) It's also easier to manage the timing of load transfers because everything coming out of the dryer is always dry by the time the washer completes the cycle.

The mildew/mold comes from liquid buildup (liquid soap and liquid softener) that doesn't git rinsed away. There should be a "maintenance" cycle that you need to run fer yer front load. I think yer owner's manul might specify no clothes, hot water, and liquid bleach added directly in fer the maintenance cycle.

Previous owners of front loaders used powdered soap and dryer sheets to eliminate the liquid buildup. Those that insisted on using the liquids had to do at least one hot water/bleach wash a week to keep the mold/mildew in check.

Good luck with yer purchase!

Being a drycleaner there is a lot I can bring to this discussion.

#1. Mildew smell in the machine. You will never have this problem if you leave the machine door open when not in use. This allows excess moisture to evaporate instead of growing mold.

#2. At the drycleaners I do have one small "residential style" washer for doing small things, like if we got a shirt with an ink stain. I don't want that ink to possibly transfer to other shirts. Anyway. When I opened the store 5 1/2 years ago we bought a Frigidaire front loader. That machine ran 13 hours a day, 6 days a week. It died just 2 weeks short of 5 years. I could have fixed it, but the rear bearing went out, and that was going to cost about $200 for me to fix. At that point I bought another front loading Frigidaire from the scratch & dent aisle at Lowe's for $400. Over the 5 years we had it running I only put $100 into repair parts. $60 for a drain pump, and $40 for the lower wheel boot. I figure with that kind of usage, it was equivalent to 40 or 50 years in someone's house.

#3. Front loaders are more energy efficient, use less water, and are not as hard on your clothes as top loaders.

When my washer at home died a few weeks ago I bought a Whirlpool Duet front loader off the scratch & dent aisle at Lowe's for $400.

If you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask...

-Jay

It's nice to know that a Pro favors them. ;)

As for the mildew, I doubt we will ever have an issue with it, as we both leave the door open most times, and do at least one hot/bleach load a week. But as I noted before, any washer will mildew and smell bad eventually if one always closes the door wet.

Ok, I'm really hoping the washer is the reason, but this last month with the same average temperature as last year, our electric useage has plummeted from 1900kWh to 1200kWh. We haven't done anything different with the heat/AC or our general overall electrical useage that I'm aware of in that time to explain such a drop. That reduces our bill by $66 per month. That's an impressive payback if it is really the case!

It won't be fair to compare it to this next month however, as two of our children are spending the summer with their bio-dad, so all useage should be down.

It depends... That is an awful lot. Your old washer and your water heater had to have been really inefficient to make that much of a difference. I'd say it is your electric water heater coupled with lower usage - partially due to the water savings of a front loader, but also because the kids are out of town you are running fewer loads, less dishwasher use, not as much water used for showers, etc...

-Jay

Wow, if the new washer is the cause, clothes washing really takes a HUGE percentage of your electric usage -- just getting a more efficient unit knocked 35% off. If the new unit uses only 30% of the energy the old one did, that means the old one was more than half of your total electric usage. :eek:

That was dated 4/23/08. It has started leaking.:mad: I haven't pulled it out and lifted it up to investigate yet.