Can I use Civic VX to tow 3500lb boat trailer?
 

I wonder, can Civic VX tow a 3500lb single axle trailer about 5 miles to the boat launch (25-45 mph speed limit, fairly flat, no heavy traffic). Trailer has electric brakes, so stopping would be non-issue.

I bit of a background - I have a 94 VX - had it for a few months, just got the last batch of problems fixed a couple weeks ago (O2, dash lighting, IACV) - been driving it for a few days now. My daily driver up to now was 94 Lincoln Mark VIII - I also used it to tow my sailboat. With gas going up I'll probably not be driving it for much longer, except I still would like to launch my boat every other week in the summer. I figured I can use electric winch and third wheel to pull the trailer up the ramp - towing would be just on leveled grade, so can Civic handle 3500 lb trailer around town, or is it impossible?

Also, any sources for Class II hitch (3500lb rated)? (I could not find anything online). Or would Class I (2000lb rated/200 lb tongue weight) suffice around town?

Thanks

Ross

My 87 Civic can handle a 500 pound trailer with 900 pounds of scrap metal piled onto it (1400 lbs total), but I only do this when the roads are pretty much deserted and I keep the tongue weight under 100 pounds by distributing the load toward the back of the trailer. Braking is much worse, handling is poor.

I know the VX has a lot more power, but with 3500 pounds on it would likely make it a dog and when the trailer stars swinging side to side, I think you'd probably lose control. I would also worry about getting too much tongue weight and tearing off the hitch or damaging your rear suspension by bottoming it out.

Here's the test. Try to lift your boat trailer tongue with the boat on it or even try to slide it sideways on the ground. If you can't budge it, then its probably too heavy for the VX's rear end. How much does it push your Lincoln rear end down when you hitch it up?

The more I think about it, you might as well keep the Lincoln for boating. It will safely handle the boat during the 5 mile trip to the lake and by the time you spend $200 on an electric winch and heavy duty hitch for the VX, you could likely buy enough gas to drive the Lincoln those 5 miles to launch for 3-4 years. The Lincoln would also work as a spare car.

You definitely don't want to have a wreck or damage your fuel saving car!

I wouldnt recommend it, my car is a bit better than yours at acceleration (have shorter ex tranny) and one time I had 700 pounds of rice at the trunk with 4 other passengers, so i would say its about 1500 total pounds (excluding me) that i was hauling. the acceleration was very bad to the point where i'm burning my clutch every time i was at a complete stop or shifting gears. more than doubling that weight wouldnt be too good for the car, especially with the very long transmission like yours

I hauled tons of stuff on top of my car that a pickup can do (beds, sofa, table, drywall, wood) and had no problem with it, but only that time with the extra 1500 pounds that my car actually was at the "max" limit.

if you dont have another car that can tow it, you could always have a friend or offer a person like 30 bucks at the boat place to tow your boat, 5 miles in distance. that sure beats buying a new vehicle or trying to tow that with your vx. even if you offer someone 30 bucks to tow it (60 back and forth) thats still 120 a month since you said you will go boatin' every 2 weeks, 120 a month still beats getting a used suv/pickup, insurance, gas, etc

If I remember correctly the owners manual tells you not to tow over 2,000 pounds, the hitch on my vx has a 1,000 pound rating, I've towed 1,500 with it on the flat before staying under 20mph and it did ok but the clutch felt different afterwards for a few 100 miles, my car also handles really poorly with a trailer, I have a 800 pound trailer that I haul empty because I hate driving trucks, and it really wips my car around
My hitch attaches to the bumper and spare tire well, for 3,500 pounds it seems like you should have a frame for it to mount to, not a uni-body.

Thanks to everyone for the info! Sounds like I might have trouble with the clutch when pulling from stop. I plan to keep my Lincoln for at least another year, or till I get this issues solved, though in the long term I'd like to go down to one car to save on property taxes, insurance, registration, parking and maintenance.

I wonder, can I change the ratio of the first gear to double or triple RPMs - this should help pulling from stop. I don't think I'd have problem with other gears - just shift late and do RPM matching.

>>> Here's the test. Try to lift your boat trailer tongue with the boat on it or even try to slide it sideways on the ground. If you can't budge it, then its probably too heavy for the VX's rear end. How much does it push your Lincoln rear end down when you hitch it up?

Erik, Right now I have about 200lb on the tongue. It had about a 75lb when I bought it 3 years ago and I had problems with fishtailing on highway going over 50 mph. I can control weight distribution by moving boat supports and the boat back and forth. I don't worry too much about fishtailing as I can control it by applying electric brake. Also, I haven't had a problem with fishtailing when going under 50 mph even with very little weight on the tongue and with Civic I wouldn't be driving on highway.

>>> if you dont have another car that can tow it, you could always have a friend or offer a person like 30 bucks at the boat place to tow your boat,

Civic94, that would work on occasional basis, but for reoccurring recreational activity I would prefer to be self-reliant. Planning sailing trips is hard enough with the weather, mechanical issues and crew availability, having to arrange a tow would add another dimension to this problem.

So sounds like the biggest issue for towing with Civic will be transmission - any comments on solving that (gear/tranny swap etc) will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Ross

When people ask about towing, everyone starts talking about power, acceleration, engines, and transmissions. Those are appropriate concerns only after you consider safety.

I do not believe you can tow 3500 pounds safely with your Civic. You may be able to drive it steady at 20mph, but in any kind of surprise or emergency maneuver you could be in huge trouble. At any higher speed you may find it entirely unstable, but if not, you'll really be on the edge and it can all change very suddenly.

Keep a tow beast, maybe the Lincoln or maybe something else.

you may be able to get it rolling, but I doubt you will get it to stop.

The other issue I see is trying to launch the boat. I remember trying to launch a 21 ski boat using a 5 litre Mustang on a shallow ramp which required the rear end of the car to be sumberged to get the boat to float on the trailor.

The car easily had enough power, trouble is as we were pushing the boat off the trailer, the car started following it into lake Mead. With the interior full of about 2 feet of water, it amazingly it pulled itself out. I don't think a front wheel drive VX in this situation would have.

Funny story. Reminds me of the Amphicar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicar

LOL! Reminds me of my car boat launch failure story. I towed my brother in law's ~700 pound boat with my 1997 Grand Am V6. I went to Maine, at 19 years old, with my girlfriend (now wife). We somehow managed to survive with me driving 80 as moose kept dive-bombing us, the trailer tracking neatly behind the car as I swerved wildly to avoid them. Hey, I was a stupid kid! I don't drive like that anymore.

I backed down a dirt "ramp" to launch, and noticed the trailer floating...and that's when I realized I forgot to unstrap the boat. Now, with the trailer suspended from the boat by the straps, I was unable to unstrap it. My front wheel drive car was also unable to pull up the ramp, and I was screwed. After struggling for awhile (these days I think I could probably figure it out -- maybe I could have unhitched and dragged it up by the safety chains; though these days I'd do it with my 4wd full size pickup anyway) a nice local came with a 4wd pickup and dragged my car and boat out all at once. :)

mrmad - I plan on using 3000lb electric winch to retrieve the boat/trailer from the water and on to leveled ground. The car would sit off the ramp possibly with wheel chokes if e-brake is not enough. You can check out this site for detailed description: https://www.messingaboutinboats.com/a...ebruary99.html

BBsGarage - my trailer is already equipped with electric brakes sufficient to provide all the braking power. Controller is mounted in the vehicles - brakes are automatically activated with manual override control

theholycow - good point about safety and handling. I wonder, how much side-to-side stress there is on the tow vehicle? I know that with RWD Lincoln it never was an issue, as long as the trailer was properly loaded. If somebody has a positive or negative experience with Civic handling while towing a trailer, I'd like to know more about it.

Thanks Ross

I can't speak for your Civic specifically, but the weight ratios are too extreme. Some new pickups (RWD/4WD, obviously) are designed to tow significantly more than their own weight, but I can assure you that a Civic is not able to safely tow a trailer 150% of its own weight. The only reason I'm not screaming "DON'T DO IT!!" is the low speed and distance. I assume you don't mind doing 20mph the whole way even though you report the speed limit being as high as 45.

You better hope there's no cops on the road, though. I think most wouldn't bother you even if your trailer was swaying across four lanes and your car was sideways, but some will nab you just for towing so obviously overweight even if you manage to do it safely.

As for the electric brakes, it's not a good idea to depend on them so completely. They are supplemental, the tow vehicle should still be able to brake the whole rig decently even after a wiring defect.

I dunno, seems like a bad idea to me. Without knowing anything about the particulars, common sense says to me too much strain on the clutch and transmission. I complain about the wear on my clutch in my VX when it's completely unladen accelerating in first from a stop. I would never dream subjecting my VX to that kind of weight with its tall 1st gear.

Plan on replacing the clutch regularly.

https://video.google.com/videoplay?do...KI_CqAPOk92jCQ

Any questions?

I think Europe is the home of small tow vehicles... when I went to Germany, lots of small cars had hitches on them (a sort of gooseneck design I haven't seen here in the US). I saw at least one midsized car towing a horse trailer (an ultralight variety that I also haven't seen here). But nothing close to what you're talking about.

A load equal to the tow vehicle is a decent load for anything. I've had electric brakes go out suddenly on a 3/4 ton truck (it's about 4600 pounds) towing/carrying about 4-5k. It stopped, but I'm really glad I wasn't hauling 8k. A google search says 3600+ for your Lincoln, which sounds decent for your boat. The VX isn't much over 2000... maybe saw your boat in 2 and take two trips? :)

Funny video, but they just had it hooked up wrong. Little cars do better pushing, not pulling. I know this because all day long I see little cars pushing giant RVs down the highway.

I would just rig the sails, and then the extra force would take a load off my motor and clutch.

Hey, how come no one sells a sail I can mount on my roof?

I can't believe you are still thinking about doing this, it is a bad idea, towing a 3,500 pound trailer with a 1,900 pound front wheel drive car, Your owners manual clearly tells you not to do it, if the police see you try it they should ticket you for operating an over loaded vehicle.
If you do try this on a public road you will be a hazard to others and a prime candidate for a Darwin award.

2,094. A bit more if you hang some foam dice from the mirror.

Wow that is funny. :D

the short answer....

HELL no. what are you thinking? i mean... seriously.


talk to a buddy/co-worker/family member/neighor/etc with a truck and trade with them when you need to move/use the boat.

Thanks to all the replies. With the clutch and handing issues I decided to hold off on this idea for a while.

Ross

i think you should absolutely hold off your idea unless you can find a way to put a V6 engine in your civic (has been done before)

Like i said in my earlier post, i haul tons of stuff with my civic, and the most weight i ever did was 1500 pounds excluding myself, in a civic with the ex transmission (alot better than the vx taller gearing for towing) and it was struggling very badly just to accelerate. I was hauling, not towing. more than doubling my load of 1500 will not work.

No. No amount of engine will make it a safe combination. More engine will merely make it easier to get to more dangerous speeds. I am consistently amazed by the quantity of people who think that the most important part of towing is power or drivetrain; those are the least important parts.

A late friend had a trailer hitch on his 1967 24 HP Citroen Ami 6 (2CV wit a much better looking body and more weight). Draw your own conclusions.

Not all the world needs an F350 to tow, or to tow at 80 mph in the passing lane.

Case in point. I think the UK (diesel) version of the Kia Spectra 5 was rated tow car of the year by the UK caravan association?

The more important part is brakes. That would equate to stopping a second Civic, so make sure you have brakes on the trailer or a lesser weight.

What were the weight ratios, speeds, road conditions, and driver training involved in your examples?

No kidding. The brakes, suspension, and overall stability are much more important. The major spec on the drivetrain should be surviving the stress, which points to less power not more. Old semis only had about 200 hp for 80k lbs! New ones are 450+, but that power/weight ratio is still easy to beat.

yea sure u can get it moving (could get a freight car moving) but are ya gonna stop it? heck no... trailer brakes or not, if they fail your a runaway car...

not to mention trying to get up said boat ramp launches are usually a pretty hefty slope and are sometimes wet if their used often. wet+ fwd+ no weight over tires = spin fest

2090 lb car

3500 lb trailer

=

fail.