Isopropyl Alcohol
 

with ethanol(E10) almost fully integrated into our filling stations, i keep hearing about isopropyl alcohol. can it be used as a safe additive(fuel cleaner) and perhaps increase FE?

i did have great increases in FE w/ acetone, but now to debate its results is a moot point since ethanol negates its affect. i did confirm that in my testing as well.

so, is isopropyl safe enough to test? might it have a positive affect on FE? if so, why would E10 not keep fuel systems clean and increase instead of decrease FE?

https://automotive.hardwarestore.com/....aspx#features
Absorbs 5 times more water than regular gas-line antifreeze. Recommended for fuel-injection engines. Safe for catalytic converters and oxygen sensors. Use in all engines including 2-cycle or diesel engines.

Does that sound safe? MSDS linked on that page will tell you it's 99% isopropanol (another name for isopropyl alcohol) and I'd put $1 on the 1% proprietary additive being water :D

Edit: Oh by the way, grocery/drug store stuff don't go below 70% concentration. Holds it's water in solution in gasoline down to about 68% IIRC, if you wanna use it in winter, go up to the 91 or 99% for best antifreeze benefits.

I've heard it mentioned that it is a good idea to use something like MMOil in the gas also to lube the fuel pump.

Also...I intend to test 24 oz canola and 3 oz 91% iso per 10 gallons...a promising combo where the canola is supposed to burn and lube and the iso boosts power some.

I'm afraid it might smoke a lot though.

I tested 4-5 oz 91% iso and it gave more power for sure.

You're going to put canola into a gasoline engine? I'm rather skeptical...

There's some theory about it making metallic soap surface lubes and bonded polymer coatings, personally, I call that sludge :D

I've added 4oz of 91% iso alcohol and 4oz of used motor oil into a push lawnmower tank of gas with minimal smoke. 8oz of oil did cause smoke but still ran.

Don't foul up your cat with all that extra oil added - I would think that caster oil would be better since it is a good two stroke lube.

24 ounces of canola per 10 gallons? That's nutty. What's the science behind this? What's it supposed to do? It's certainly more oil than you'd ad for any upper cylinder lube.

Exactly, I can see using a couple or three ounces, but unless you're trying to "cure" an accidental tankfull of E85 in a non-flexfuel vehicle, I'd say that much is overkill and may gunk up your motor quickly. On the metal soap and polymer coating thing, that seems like something you want as an occasional treament, not being made in dozen ounce quantities for every tankfull.

The info I'm referencing is here:

https://www.mpgresearch.com/forum/vie...&sd=a&start=30

"I'm currently doing 1qt to a daytona tank (13 or 14 gallons). Plus Acetone at 3oz per 10gal.

I used just soy veggy oil last 3 times to brake the myth about canola oil. Paid 1.25 a qt at Biglotts.

Filled up 3 days ago and we had 40's at night and 70's to low 80's during the day and my tank average display is showing 30.1mpg. It is normally at least 4mpg off from the actual.

Other sucesses here at work:

Ford festiva was 38 now 44

Late Jeep wrangler 2.5L was 15 to 16, now 18 to 20."


These last two are 38 % and 22% mpg gains. The iso would maybe help offset the ethanol issue. I still say SMOKE though. Good idea to pull a plug and check for oil?

Final analysis? use DUE DILIGENCE...some of the stuff I post is hypothetical.

I'd recommend going and asking bitog experimenters if they'd tried that.

In case no one saw this:

Last tank I saw a 10% gain using a 5 to 1 ratio of Walmart 91% iso to 1 part MMoil.

This = 2.3 oz of this mix to each 10 gallons....3 oz to a full 13 G tank.

I use the 91 % iso because it is cheaper than Heet. When put together they will separate...so you need to shake the bottle before use.

If running an electric pump I'd change the ratio to maybe 3 oz iso to 2 oz MMoil. Or around 4 oz of this mix per each 10 gallons.

When I tested 5 oz per 10 G of this mix AND HHO...I had real good power but LOST mpg. So the amount used is probably critical.

Look at the MDS for Seafoam and you'll see it's made of naphtha, isopropanol, and pale oil. So I would say it's safe to put in your tank.

Q

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol

Looks like regular salt will cause the 9% water to separate?

Unlike ethanol or methanol, isopropanol can be separated from aqueous solutions by adding a salt such as sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, or any of several other inorganic salts.[5] The process is colloquially called salting out, and causes concentrated isopropanol to separate into a distinct layer.

HEET:

Isopropanol is a major ingredient in "dry-gas" fuel additive. In significant quantities, water is a problem in fuel tanks as it separates from the gasoline and can freeze in the supply lines at cold temperatures. The isopropanol does not remove the water from the gasoline. Rather, the isopropanol solubilizes the water in the gasoline. Once soluble, the water does not pose the same risk as insoluble water as it will no longer accumulate in the supply lines and freeze. Isopropanol is often sold in aerosol cans as a windscreen de-icer.

C3H8O...a lot of H in there? ...the only difference between iso and propane (C3H8) is the O atom? iso is liquid propane???

Isopropyl alcohol is cheaply available. Like acetone, it dissolves a wide range of nonpolar compounds. It is also relatively nontoxic and dries quickly. Thus it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid (by dissolving lipophilic contaminants such as oil). << use a top oil...it is a strong solvent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane

Interesting about the salt, must have been added to that article recently. Might have to make use of that... 99% and even 70% is getting harder to find, and there's 50% stuff everywhere.

I'm coming to regard both this and other additives as something akin to "liquid combustion timing" meaning they assist in getting peak cylinder pressure in the right spot. High polarity also means they significantly alter interfacial tension (surface tension) by an order of magnitude or more, even in ppm quantities. Nay sayers will whine about "how can such "homeopathic" quantities DO anything" but are obviously ignorant of the chemistry involved. I remember for instance floating a needle in a couple of gallons of water in science class... and seeing a single drop of detergent added to that 2 gallons disrupt the surface tension enough for the needle to drop to the bottom of the bowl.

By the way "water wetter" has a high proportion of isopropanones in the active ingredients (but has a lot of water in it too so don't stick it in your gas) this is only around 10% of the volume, where the other ingredients seem to be solid surface lubes for the water pump and seal conditioners. Anyway, this is a commercial product intended to reduce surface tension in the cooling system to "wet" the interior surfaces better and one can see that the proportions of isopropanones necessary to have that effect is very minimal. However, before dashing some in your cooling system... think about whether you really want to run your motor cooler (thermodynamically inefficient) and how you're going to provide an equivalent of the solid surface lubes (boric acid maybe?) *

Anyway, I need to start trying measured quantities, I've been a "dump half a bottle in to clean stuff out" user, noticing FE bumps on the way, but my recent thinking as stated above is that quantities may be vehicle specific for best results, according to when the peak cylinder pressure is.

Edit:* oh and a teaspoon of brake fluid would probably work for seal conditioner.

I'm coming to a similar conclusion, It might be that the gain I'm seeing just happened to occur due to the lack of vac advance...combined with an advanced basic ignition...so maybe a slightly retarded ignition at cruise.

The new EPA avg for this car is 26 mpg...while I typically see 32 in summer mixed...almost 35 with the iso (if it pans out). Never saw a gain using acetone. Will likely try adding HHO at maybe 6 amps on top the iso while retarding timing to some extent to avoid the increased pinging I saw with the last combined test. Also might try setting the timing to highest vac at cruise.

With a newer car where the ignit advance is controlled...you might see the same thing if the ECU retarded due to ping?

I wouldn't use caster oil either as it doesn't burn well and usually stays an oil in the exhaust(read about why pilots used to wear a scarf). A good ashless 2-stroke oil is more like what you should be using.

Any updated mixes of Iso to MMoil? I'm going to try 5 parts Iso to 1 part MMoil and put 4 oz/10 gals of gas in my '01 Dodge Ram 1500 5.2 L "gas hog dog." My city mpg is 12 and my hwy mpg is almost 14. Never better than that. I already tried acetone and only got .5 mpg increase on 2 oz/10 gals.

Well you can look at my gas log and see apparent increases when IPA mixes were used, but they appear to fall within regular "noise" levels, and the ambient temperature increase as we go into summer seems to be having an effect... though you could say I'm seeing 1mpg over average, or 5%... but hard to tell. There seems to be a "general" benefit in throwing some through every month or two to keep things cleaned out.

Saw a boatload of $1 per bottle Iso-HEET at Walmart...had to take up 2 feet of shelf space...so somebody is using it...in summer too. Iso-HEET has oil in it.

You should always use a top lube with acetone or iso...espec with EFI and an electric pump.

Well I've given up on isopropyl since I can't see clear gains with it, but the last thing I stuck in my tank impressed me more.... https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=8192

I can't believe the crap you guys are putting into your gas tanks! Are you the guys that are putting water in there too? You know that the fuel pump strainer and fuel pump catch most of that, right? That is, until they clog. But I guess you guys are smarter than the scientists at the gas companies.

Guess what alcohol does to all the rubber seals in your engine. Good luck with FE when you're burning all that oil.

Some gas already has 10% ethanol in it? I'm adding another 0.16% iso plus some top lube.

Fear and hysteria? :eek:

E10 resistance was mandated mid 80s, 91 up cars have additional resistance. Marvin needed new "rubber" lines over 5 years ago, no alcohol involved back then, so he got the new lines that are up to the '91 up specs. Anyway any older vehicle that's been in continuous use, if it hasn't got resistant lines, the originals are gonna pop VERY soon alcohol or no. Anything that's had replacements in the last 15 years should be safe.

Fuel filter sock won't stop anything but rocks, it's only about the same mesh as a pair of nylons.

Let's also not forget that the plastics industry buys the best part of the petroleum. Fuel isn't some kind of outstanding product that scientists produce to make the best power. It's a mix of the cheapest pieces that remain after the plastics industry takes all the complex pieces. Not to mention that its mixed in gigantic batches to be used in 14 to 28 days. It's bread and water as a meal for the combustion chamber, not some kind of proper meal.

Yeah pretty much it's the "least worst" soup of hydrocarbons that they can get away with selling, rather than the best thing for your motor ever.

Sorry but I don't buy your hypothesis.

When gasoline was first invented, there was a hyuuuge demand for plastics? Like today?

Aren't 2-strokes total-loss oil systems? Like the oil goes out of the engine with the exhaust? Are you saying castor oil is easier on the cat?

Any oil added to the tank will eventually go to the cat... One thing I heard often years ago, but I don't see mentioned here is adding a couple of ounces of ATF to your fuel. I used to do it all the time on my old 74 Chevy truck because I could not get leaded fuel anymore to lubricate the valves.

-Jay

My 1980 Buick's manual says up to E10 is acceptable. :)

That red oily looking "fuel injector cleaner" is probably pretty close to ATF, ATF is chock full of detergent type stuff usually.

I'll try water when I find a good and cheap emulsifier ;)

I've heard that "Marvel Mystery Oil" is nothing but ATF in a fancy package.

Well in the interest of research I just added 3.4 oz of 91% isopropyl alcohol and 0.7 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil to a 17.8 gallon tank of gas unleaded.

Since I am super anal about stats of my last 7 or 8 tankfuls, if there is even a 5% improvement I will know and report it here.

I drive back and forth to work the same way everyday with little change.

Just a small request from some of you veterans of this website, as you will read in the message above, no abbreviations, no shorthand, etc.
MMoil means nothing to folks you are new here, take the extra 5 seconds required to be clear and everyone will appreciate it.
Thanks in advance!

P.S. ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid

Best to use at least 2 oz MMoil to each 10 gallons? Might save your fuel pump?

I'm testing 2.5 oz 91% iso and 2 oz MMoil per 10 G in a fuel injected engine.

Sorry are you asking a question or making a statement? (question mark at the end of your sentence)

If you are making a statement what is the statement based on?

Frankly I don't expect any change in Fuel Economy (FE) or perceivable power but I had the Alcohol and Marvel Mystery Oil laying around so what the heck.

At the end of this tankful I will know whether it made the slightest bit of difference.

If it does I will bottle it and sell it!! :thumbup: :D

I don't think you'd be able to collect enough data outside of a laboratory on whether or not adding MMO to the tank saves the fuel pump. They already seem to last quite a long time. In my experience over the years I usually get between 120,000 and 150,000 miles on a fuel pump anyway. The Beast just got a new fuel pump a few months ago at 150,500 miles. I forget the mileage, but my Buick was almost 20 years old when the fuel pump gave out. Rusty got a fuel pump at about 130,000 miles. My conclusion is that fuel pumps last a long time, or at least on GM cars they do.

-Jay

Marvin needed one at about 240,000KM.... he's got 70,000 km on it now, and during that time has drank a bottle of isopropyl approx every 6 weeks for emissions and fuel system cleaning, has had periods of a couple of bottles a week when I've been testing the effect on mileage, only recently started screwing with putting lubes in the tank. I don't think any alcohols are going to seriously affect the lubricity designed into the fuel, until you start putting 20% or so of your own brew in there.

Converted to miles that's just shy of 150,000 miles if my mental math is correct.

Yep, a hair under 150K miles. IMO key to pump longevity is changing fuel filters on schedule (if it's sensible like 18-24mo or 30K, if longer than that do it at least every 2 years.) or as required, when your pump starts to get louder it's probably new filter time.