100mpg from diesel hatchback??
 

Hi:)

I'm from England and have recently developed a strong interest in FE. With diesel costing $12 per gallon equivalent, I am in the process of buying a small VW 1.4 turbo diesel hatchback, see spec here-


https://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...ar/?car=107360

This car can obtain 78.5 mpg on country roads/ freeways, and this is where I do 95% of my driving:thumbup: . So, how easy/ difficult will it be to get 100mpg- a 30% improvement over manufacturers spec?

What changes have you guys had to make to your cars to get a 30% improvement in FE? I take it simply maintaining speed at 60mph ( our speed limit on country/ rural roads), coasting with engine off, inflating tires to slightly above tyre spec will not do the job?

A chip improves power by 30% but also torque by 40% so I will certianly be doing this, and it only costs $70:thumbup:

I would be smug as a bug in a rug if I could get 100mpg from a run of the mill diesel hatchback, it will be my project for the near future:D

Dave

I'd say with hypermiling and some areo mods this is probably possible to hit 100 mpg in a vehicle like that. Have you considered also making your own biodiesel? You can usually get waste peanut oil from restaurants for free, and if your are willing to invest a little time you can make biodiesel to supplement your diesel fuel purchases, lowering your average cost per gallon.

Thats encouraging to hear!

I have used veg oil in the past on an older 1.9 turbo diesel VW engine, I just bought the stuff from supermarkets and used it straight out of the bottle.

That was when it cost $0.80 per litre 3 years ago. Now it costs $2.10 per litre:mad:

Restaurants/ takeaways are not interested in letting me take away their waste oil, even though they have to pay to dispose of it:rolleyes: On ebay waste stuff costs $1.40 per litre, and you have to process/ travel to collect, with the reduced FE it does not really make it worthwhile.

I will look into areo mods, this car is a bit 'boxy', quite poor areodynamically:(

Vegetable oil is NOT the same as biodiesel. Biodiesel is refined mainly from vegetable oil but the resulting material is very different.

Most improvements that people achieve are from driving strategies, not modifications. Some aerodynamic modifications can help, and inflating tires to their maximum (instead of the recommendation from the car manufacturer) can help if it doesn't make your car handle badly.

The chip that increases power most likely does the job by sacrificing efficiency, so expect your FE to go down as a result.

Some of the common driving strategies may not affect diesel engines. For example, strategies whose purpose is to reduce pumping losses from the closed throttle won't help, as diesel engines tend to lack a throttle...

I would also say that the chip won't do a whole lot for you as far as FE (and would more than likely hurt it)

I would suggest a grill block and maybe some aero mods. also if you could keep your speeds a little lower like around 50MPH (not sure the kph equivalent). my car gets it's best mileage there rather than at 60. I know all cars are different depending on aero but if yours is "BOXY" as you say then the same should apply. maybe even a belly pan for better aero as well.

with fuel being so expensive over there, I can see some of the more elaborate techniques being more worth it to you than to us paying $4 a gallon in the states (even though that is high as well) oh and diesel being $5 (still nothing compared to your $12/gal).

can you post pics of this car of yours? I checked the link and couldn't find a pic of it. I am curious of it. I really wish we could get a car like that in the states.

Surely the chip will increase FE? That is one of the promises made by all the manufacturers of these chips at least.

I would have thought that more torque = less power required for acceleration and to maintain any given speed? Do they not also lean out the fuel mixture? Im not really clued up all that much.

usually a leaner mix has less power than a richer mix. thus the resistor mod on the IAT sensor (incoming air temp) which tricks it into thinking that more oxygen is coming into the engine and makes you run richer thus giving you more power.

I don't know if they do that same thing on the diesels but ebay is bad about selling you a resistor to give you more power for gas engines.

Thanks for that!

I will post up a link to info about the chip, and people can tell me what they think.

$5 is CHEAP let me tell you. I know you guys have been used to $1.50 a gallon a few years ago, but its still cheap;)

I will post a pic of the car below.

We still use mph for our distances/ speed over here by the way. Screw the euro metric system.

Or how about selling you a 12Vdc fan and calling it an "Electric supercharger"

-Jay

All righty-

Here is two links to a chip/ re-programmed ecu company, they are the most trusted here in England. I can get the same thing for $70 instead of $900 as listed on their website:eek:


https://www.superchips.co.uk/benefits.php

Specific data for my car-

Improved fuel efficiency
In today's market with soaring fuel prices, a Superchips remap means improved fuel economy as well as improved perormance - saving you money in the long run.


Volkswagen Lupo TDI
2000 onwards
Engine type : Turbo-Diesel
Engine size : 1422 cm3
Cylinders : 3


Original bhp : 75
Original nm : 195
BHP increase : 31
NM gain : 59
Lb/Ft gain : 44



Pics of the car from a random ad on ebay-

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2003-VOLKSWAGE...3286.m14.l1318

Every chip seller insists that theirs increases fuel economy. The expert engineers who designed the cars are no fools, but they are constrained by having to make the car be everything to everyone -- emissions, fuel economy, power, price, dependability, drivability, and some other things I can't think of at the moment. To adjust one of those items up, someone writing a new program has to adjust most of the others down.

Try to find actual customers who have real world results to report. Maybe it can increase your economy but I wouldn't depend on it.

If increasing power and MPG came with a simple rewrite of the computer program, that didn't sacrifice driveability and emissions then the MFR would have already done it.

-Jay

Its interesting that they only state a FE improvement for turbo diesels, and not for petrol/ petrol turbos.

I have read in the past, that in some models with the same engine, but different power/ torque outputs, the one with more power and torque gives better FE.

Maybe it depends upon your specific engine/ programme that is designed?

I know that superchips for dodge trucks is crap!!!. I can't say for the cars but I know that over time on my truck, the ECU will relearn the way the superchips is fooling it with the sensors and counter act them. you will see a descent increase at the beginning but over time it will go back to the way it was. several people confirmed that which saved me $245. can't say about fuel economy, at the time gas was about $2 a gallon and nobody cared.

there are places that would completely rewrite your program for the ECU but they were $500 for the mild and $1k and up for the wild and they rewrote fuel maps and timing which made your mileage go to crap. you would get stupid gains from it. most of the extreme programs required major work to the engine because it would damage a stock (non-built) engine.

it all goes back to that old saying "you never get something for nothing"

I saw that little car on the internet. I looked it up after I posted. cool little thing. no where near legal in the states but I would drive the crap out of it. My first car was a '93 geo metro, got 50 mpg which was awesome to me (still awesome actually). they remind me a lot of each other.

start a gas log. I think it would be interesting to see a car get that kind of mileage from the factory.

Why would it not be legal over there Beef?

I shall maybe start a log. Certianly 90mpg will be acheivable without too much fuss I would think.

I had the next tdi engine up from this one, in a much larger car. A 1.9 turbo diesel, 25% heavier,even more of a wind barge, and still got 65mpg. That was before I began 'hypermiling' too.

Doesn't look that boxy to me....certainly no more boxy than my '91 Geo Metro...I wouldn't mind one of those...75 mpg would still be a nice improvement over 40 mpg...

75 over thyar is 63 over hyar don't forget.

If I'm not mistaken, due to the fact that diesels don't have a throttle (usually), the method they use to regulate RPM isn't by regulating incoming air, but by regulating fuel injected.

Due to the fact that a diesel runs on detonation, having it too lean isn't as much a worry. As you push down on the throttle more fuel is injected which gives more power which supports a higher rev. That's why you see puffs of black smoke when you floor it, because you pump too much fuel than can be burned, and it takes a moment or two for the revs to get high enough to burn it all.

So with that being the case with diesels, I'd say that the best driving method you could use is just use as light a foot as you can, so that as little fuel is injected as possible.


Of course, this whole post is based on the fact that I'm right about that first bit.

Wrong. Though driving changes can help a lot. But so can technical mods. Put both together and what do you have? :thumbup:


Example of a technical mod:

https://www.fuel-saver.org/Forum/showthread.php?tid=680

I'm sure some on this forum will throw a fit.....:cool: :rolleyes: :D

Keep in mind the volume differences between the Imperial gallon Dave's using and the US gallon most of the rest of us are using. Dave's Euro-cycle economy number of 78.5 per Imperial gallon is equal to 65.4 on our gallons. His desired goal of 100 is equal to our 83.3. Those make the achievement much more likely.
As far as technique versus technology, technique will always win.

sorry, took a sick day.

it probably isn't legal in the US because of safety issues, it's overall size, and the fact that we are strict (too strict in my opinion) on diesel engines, especially the small ones.

I wish I were wrong. If I were I would get one today!!!! (well maybe not today but soon).

it is awesome that you can get a car like that where you are. we are stuck with either a hybrid or a smart as our best options and the smarts we have only achieve 40ish MPG. to us, that is dang good. and no, we can't get the diesel smart over here either. too polluting or some crap they are feeding us.