Dealer says ScanGauge ruined my PCM and I can't use ScanGauge anymore
 

I've had my car into my local dealer 5 times now for a check engine light code (PO171: air-fuel ration, feedback is stable after warm up, but rich on start up), which is a lean running condition.They checked the mass air flow sensor, engine coolant temp sensor, changed the front O2 sensor, checked the pcv, says the fuel pressure is ok, and have replaced all 4 injectors.

Basically, they have went down the list and keep calling GM technical support and have no clue what the issue is that is causing the code. They asked me about my ScanGauge on the 2nd trip because their tech thought it might be sending codes to the ECM and PCM and is screwing it up. I explained it is only reading and not changing or flashing anything. I also explained that the check engine light was also on BEFORE I even bought the ScanGauge and plugged it in. Well, now they are trying to tell me that it is screwing up the PCM because it makes the car get better fuel economy (they went online to see what a ScanGauge was). I don't think they read the part about it helps with fuel economy by giving you read outs so you can adjust your driving patterns.

Anyhow, they also said they can't even reflash the PCM like they can on GM cars. So, they are going to replace the PCM, but told me I can't plug my ScanGauge back in after or it will void my warranty on the PCM in the future (at any GM dealer).

Has anyone ever had a dealer tell them they can't use their ScanGauge? Do you think they are just grasping for straws here?

I honestly think they are just grasping at straws. what it comes down to is you prob had a fualty part and they didnt want to admit to it so that means they try to find something that you have done so that they can pass the blame. It is very common for dealers to do that which really sucks. The scanguage is purely a diagnostic tool and does not actually send anything to your vehicle so i dont see how that could have messed it up

I agree. I would take the SG out, and put it back in after you pick the car up. Take it out again if you have to return it for service. They don't know what they are talking about. The SG does not change the internal program running on the computer in any way.

-Jay

Yeah, I should've just taken the thing out before I went in. I had the wires all tucked up under the door trim and dash (have it mounted on front left of my dash near the windshield) so I just left it there.

Stupid me :)

let's assume what they found was true (which is a crock). that means when my check engine light comes on and I bring it to them, they void their own warranty by plugging in their own scan tool. also, if I were to try to save some money and hassle by taking it to autozone or advance, there again warranty gone. all scan tools do pretty much the same thing. the scangauge just displays what it is reading which is very convenient to us.

I am not sure how they would prove that you had the scangauge plugged up if you had problems again. I would have definitely taken it out of the car before I brought it in for serviceing but we can't dwell on the past.

also, that would be a good one to let linear logic know about too. they may have some words with that dealership because I think that would be a lot of bad publicity for their product (even though we know it is crap).

you might want to shoot them an email and tell them your story just as an FYI.

Sending them an email is a good idea - make sure you include the dealer name and the phone number in your email. Unfortunately it takes so much time for them to read their email it might take some time for them to follow up on that. I sent them an email for tech support, they replied almost 2 weeks later. I replied with more information and haven't heard back yet.

-Jay

These guys don't have a clue.

Get the car serviced someplace else that won't rip you off.

Well, I called Linear-Logic (company who makes SG) as soon as they were open. I spoke with Ron DeLong (the inventor of the ScanGauge) for quite a while. He was not happy to hear them saying that the SG could be the cause and said that if that's the case then GM and Toyota are selling a car that is non-OBDII compliant and that it is against the law. He said that if in fact the SG is causing the problem, that GM and Toyota are going to need to issue a recall of every single vehicle that is not meeting the compliance laws.

He asked for the dealer name, phone and contact person in service. He got my name, car make, model and year. He said he would call my dealer when we got off the phone. Well, he called the dealer and explained what his product does, that it could not cause this issue, and so on. He also explained that his company would take legal action from this point if needed. I assume Linear-Logic would not like such unsubstantiated claims continuing to be made ... heh.

Anyhow, during this time the service manager was on her way to pick me up to get me a rental car. Ron called me back while I was in the car with her to let me know what he said to the service person at the dealer. He also let me know that he left the service mgr a voice mail (I let him know I was in the car with her and he said to tell her about it).

So, I get my rental car and leave. 8 minutes later Ron calls again to let me know he spoke with the manager and they will replace my PCM under warranty. She still persisted that the SG might be 1 bad one in 50,000 and it could be the cause. So, to nullify that issue Ron is going to send me a brand new replacement unit express mail.

Ron also told her that he thinks changing the PCM will not fix that code (which I had already brought up to the dealer), and that he thinks it's a vacuum leak issue. He explained how to check for it while driving and everything. I don't know if they will do what he asked, but he is going so far out of his way to help me it's unbelievable. I've never, ever dealt with a company who was this helpful and responsive. Talk about customer service, and from the inventor/owner no less.

He also advised me of lemon-law application to this issue, and we discussed the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Basically, the dealer is going to have to fix this CEL code or get me a new car, period. Ron ended our conversation with this, "Mark we will get this whole situation figured out, don't worry about it". How freaking cool is this guy?!?!?!?!?

Ron proved to me that he and his legal team do indeed have our backs. Here's a link to a video of an interview Ron did on MSNBC ... if you're curious about the SG or what Ron is like.

https://video.aol.com/video-detail/a-...gas/3786732430

Another audio interview he did:
https://www.podtech.net/home/3665/scangauge

metroMPG also interviewed him and did a piece on his page.

He seems like just your average joe so a shot at him or his product is pretty much a shot at all of us reguar working class joes.

I'm happy to hear that he took care of you that way. it is one thing to meet expectations but another to EXCEED expectations.

I had my doubts about the scangauge when I first heard about it but I am now a scangauge owner, I am impressed with the quality of the product and the way it was designed. I had no doubt that he would take care of it. I am hapily suprised that he took care of it so fast.

that is awesome

also a thought, when you get your car back, you may want to take off all the other stuff you have done to it. I can see them looking at you as a target from here on out.

not the scangauge? then it must be all this extra sheet metal you added or the fact that you bumped up your tire pressure and it rattled the car lose. no warranty for you.

you see what I am saying. it has to be someones fault and they don't want to claim it.

Glad to hear that you got the issue resolved (hopefully). I'm still waiting for my email to be returned. Maybe I should try calling...

Yeah I would just call and talk with Ron ... 888-433-5664. I may have got lucky because I was spam redialing to get someone as soon as they turned off their answering machine. :p

Were I you, I would also (if you have not already done so) contact GMs district office and apprise them of the situation. Their address, phone number, and probably email should be in the back of your owner's manual.

I agree with everyone else the scan gauge didn't cause the problem. The only thing it is doing is relaying information that is being fed into the computer. Any type of scan tool when used is only hacking into the computers memory so why would this one be any different than one made by GM or any other manufacturer. I think it would be funny if it was a vacuum leak as Ron suggested. I'll bet the service personnel would never admit it though they would tell you anything but the truth and probably replace something else just so they could claim that was the problem all along. I'll bet that service manager was really surprised to know that you took your concerns to the maker of the scan gauge. She'll probably be more careful what she says and who she says it to from now on. Glad everything got worked out for you.

wow that is awesome.

i am going to buy a scan gauge.

I always say "who is going to believe in your product if you don't believe in it yourself"

Ron obviously does.

its a really good product and does it's job well. well worth the money

the beauty in the scan gauge is that it doesnt claim to save fuel. it helps YOU save it. its very concrete

Went and see your engine light come on the same day you have a new ECU...I dont think it's the problem at all.


*I see you have a Vibe (Toyota), and they are right, they can't reflash the ECU NOT DOES THE SCANGAUGE.

https://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

Read through it, a simple vaccum leak or a bad MAF might be the cause.
I'm baffled at how sucky some mechanics are.

Well said. I doubt Ron will/can pick up every call and personally answer every email but that's an excellent example of amazing customer service!

wow I am impressed

What incredible customer service from ScanGauge.

Wow!

Yeah maybe I should ask them why mine keeps turning on and crashing when I use my remote door locks.

That's pretty impressive that the SG people ironed everything out for you. If for some reason the dealer tries to charge you for the replacement ECM, insist that they give you the old part. If the replacement ECM throws the same code, return it as defective and reinstall the original.

That is really cool how the owner himself is going through all of the processes with you instead of a "representative" that doesnt give a crap. You know he will push this to the end to show thats it not your guage and that it is the dumb dealerships. Those dealerships are a huge problem for GM alot of them like to cut corners and pass blame... they want to make as much money while doing the least work. I work in the plant that builds the Northstar and if you have a problem and call us we will typically bring your engine in and take a look at it.... if you call us and not the dealership. GM as a company cant actually control what a dealership does so its pretty ****ty. But it is good to see that everything looks like it will work out for you. Congrats and tell Ron we all love his product!!

+1

This random occurance is a big win for Ron and his company. He did what any businessman would do to protect his own interests; he HAD to do it. In this case, it also was a major help for the consumer, and great for publicity.

If he hadn't done it, then the SG can get a false reputation as something that breaks cars, and that would be bad for sales.

Bravo OP, bravo Ron, and I feel bad for the dealer and mechanic. The issue is that it's a hard-to-troubleshoot malfunction, and it's pretty hard to avoid blaming the odd electronic gizmo plugged into the car, even if you know there's no reason it could cause the problem. Still, for the sake of good customer service and to avoid legal problems from the occasionals squeaky wheel (from Ron, or from the OP invoking the Magnuson-Moss act), they should cover it...and they are, at least for the legal reasons if not the customer service.

This is why you never trust what the dealer-mechs say. Always, Always get a second look from your local and trusted mech. And reflashin the PCM issue? Please, it's the some computer that reflashes them for any car, Gm, Ford, or Lotus. I've seen my mech. do it with same computer on several different cars. they just want to charge more $$$$. Bravo to Ron for backing up your product.

Update: Well, I called the dealer today and big surprise it's not fixed yet. I guess it wasn't the PCM afterall ... ahhh yeah I told them that already. I also emailed them a bunch of tips/posts that people on this and other forums put up (a couple from GM service techs with ideas). I realize that this lean code is a bear to diagnose and I hate to tell them how to do their jobs, but at this point someone has to right?

Hopefully, I will get my car back sometime this month ... sigh. If not, I guess I start down the fun lemon law road.

yeah its a toy drivetrain so i would def call toyota and pay to have them diag it. then force gm to reimburse you. i had the same prob with my 05 ion. 4 bcms later and it still would occasionally leave me stranded >< I pretty much told them that i was not going to pay for 2 months of lease payments since the car wasnt fvcking working. grr. not all stealerships are like this, only some.

Finally Solved
 

Well, the dealer has finally figured out what the CEL was coming on from and it is fixed.... yippie. Any guesses on what it was?????


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I'll give you a hint. It was a vacuum leak (big surprise I know). The question now is, where was the leak at?

That's tough... The only thing I can think of, but your car is too new to have is a vacuum operated choke.

-Jay

I'll pick fuel pressure regulator.

IT WAS THE ONE HOOKED TO THE SCANGAUGE!!!!!!!

lol

I guess the power brake booster- no wait- you said they checked the pvc valve, but i guess they missed it the first time through so I change my guess to the pcv valve vacuum hose..

between the im and the block?

So are you asking for us to guess where the leak was? Or are you wondering yourself?

Anyway did you experience anything such as a high or lopey idle? That's usually the symptoms of a vacuum leak.

They replaced all that stuff?

"A code P0171 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

* The MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor is dirty or faulty. Note: The use of "oiled" air filters may cause the MAF to become dirty if the filter is over-oiled. There is also an issue with some vehicles where the MAF sensors leak the silicone potting material used to protect the circuitry.
* There could be a vacuum leak downstream of the MAF sensor."
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0171

DAMN you had it Erik... should've stayed with your first guess and you would've won the prize!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, the cause was a vacuum leak .... in the hydro-booster (power brake booster) of all things. After spraying the entire engine to try and find the leak, they finally heard it near the brake booster.

So, in this whole process my car got:

- A new ScanGauge unit (and solid proof they are a great company)
- 4 brand new fuel injectors
- New O2 sensors
- New PCM
- A free cleaning of my mass air flow sensor
- And a clean engine since it was fully sprayed with carb cleaner.... lol

So to find that all you would need to do is pinch the brake booster vacuum hose?