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for those of you who would like to make your voice heard about domestic drilling for oil. not sure how much good it will do, but it just costs a few minutes of your time.

i recommend contacting your congressmen to let them know that he/she will not get your vote for next term w/out supporting domestic drilling for oil.

The idea of drilling for more domestic oil to solve our energy problems is a flawed argument.

The amount of ANWR oil that is feasible to extract would meet only 1% of projected US demand over 50 years. The amount of economically affordable, not just technically possible, oil to recover from ANWR is only a little more than 3 billion barrels, or about 6 months of our current consumption (never mind our consumption 10 years from now when the first drop of ANWR oil would flow if drilling were allowed today) if that were the only oil we were using.

The best source of oil is the oil that was never used....conservation is always the best option for reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Displacing the year 2000 Persian Gulf imports would only take a 3.25 mpg increase in overall fuel economy. Educate yourself. Read more info in the article at this link:

https://rmi.org/images/PDFs/EnergySec..._USESFtext.pdf

Oil is also needed for plastics and other chemical feedstocks. Better to save the domestic reserves for that, instead of burning it.

Anybody that complains about the price of oil while at the same time professing the belief we should not seek new ways to produce and refine should be thrown overboard with much celebration and many mugs of grog.

Even if domestic oil (shale, alaska, etc.) don't prove to be the end-all-be-all cure, at least the process of getting this oil from the ground will help American industry. WIth the huge trade deficit, and the loss of the American manufacturing base, some meaningful jobs like this would be a huge help to the American economy. The US cannot survive only as a service economy, which is where we are headed.

It may not solve all of the energy problems, but it can be a significant part of an economic solution.

-Bob C.

Well, I wasn't complaining about the price of oil. I think it's rather good for us...painful in the short term, but it will finally kick our addiction to inefficient vehicles (SUV sales are down almost 50% vs. a year ago) and promote conservation (no only in our vehicle use but also in our buildings) and improved fuel efficiency. Automakers, even GM, clearly get it now.

It is much cheaper to conserve than to drill for new oil.

Is "meaningful jobs" a good reason to drill for new sources of domestic oil? While we're at it, why don't we start ramping up production of SUVs again? That would create meaningful jobs as well, right? I think you folks aren't looking at the big picture. Our oil woes are not from lack of supply or lack of domestic supply but rather from our 100 year addiction to cheap oil. Now we're paying the price. Our economy and lifestyle as it currently exists is not sustainable with oil as our primary energy source. With Peak Oil close at hand or already here, and with the Bushevik regime in bed with Big Oil, and Big Investment Firms, it's easy for oil prices to be manipulated. And our corporate media is guilty of perpetuating the "oil crisis" propaganda in order to keep prices high. Oil prices will eventually stabilize when demand drops substantially from conservation and better fuel efficiency. Conservation is always cheaper than finding new sources of oil.

I give up, cems70, please tell me exactly why your side wants the US to stop oil cold turkey and suffer unneccessarily with extreme withdrawal symptoms...when there is nothing other than the unproven Peak Oil idea. Even then, what's the difference whether we hit the wall sooner rather than later?

Isn't that what you all want? No More Oil (polluting the world)? Regardless of the costs to our modern world?

Why do you care whether somebody has an SUV? What is the real problem you have with the very existance of oil and its use???

Yes as far as I can tell, although for some reason you don't seem to think so.

You have to not only consider the unemployment rate, but the underemployment rate. If you get skilled workers gainfully & constructively employed, then that will help the entire US economy. A stronger economy will lead to a stronger dollar, and decrease the price of imported goods. And, a stronger dollar will allow more resources to be dedicated to reducing oil consumption.

Not sure where you are going with the comment about SUVs, since there is

Should we also seek to decrease our oil consumption? Of course! The fewer goods we import (including oil), the stronger the dollar will be.

-BC

I'm not advocating that we stop using oil cold turkey...in fact that's not even possible with the way we have developed our infrastructure (lot of roads, lots of far away suburbs that require long commutes to work in the major metro areas). What I'm advocating is to use this period of rising oil prices to 1) learn how to conserve (i.e drive less, car pool, use public transportation etc.), 2) start manufacturing more fuel efficient vehicles, and 3) put lots of money into research for the next generation of alternative fuels and technology to propel our vehicles of the future.

Unproven Peak Oil theory, eh? Do you also believe that Global Warming is just a natural warming cycle of the earth? There are some very credible geologists, government officials, academics and investment bankers that know a hell of a lot. Do you want to know about giant oil fields like Ghawar in Saudi Arabia or Canterelle in Mexico that are collapsing in terms of output? Or the fact that the oil production curve mirrors the discovery curve of oil deposits, usually about thirty or forty years later? That said discovery curve for the world peaked back in the late 60's? That all of the big oil producing nations cooked their books on their reserves back in the 1980's, so by stating higher reserves they could sell more oil? That Saudi Arabia, the world's largest producer, is likely (based on Int'l Energy Agency spreadsheets of monthly output) to have peaked in production back in May of 2005? In your quest for truth, you might want to check out Colin Campbell, Paul Roberts, Richard Heinberg, Julian Darley, Kenneth Duffeyes, websites like Energy Bulletin, The Oil Drum, etc. Maybe there's some debate about the precise date for Peak Oil, but this much is true: oil is a finite resource and all the data points to declining oil production. If it hasn't happened already, it's coming very soon.

So what's the difference whether we hit the wall sooner rather than later? I think it's a a big difference. We are in a transition period, and resource peaks and limits are often not apparent until we are well into the decline side of the curve. But is that really when you want to be realizing that you're in serious trouble? I think we should be using this period of transition to prepare ourselves for a very different world without oil or without cheap oil. This is the time to conserve and to continue to develop alternative energy technologies so that our transition from an oil economy is a smoother one. It is not the time to be drilling for more oil domestically.

Finally, why do I care if someone has an SUV? If the SUV is not a necessary vehicle for that person (and clearly, most people do not need an SUV), then that excessive fuel consumption is pissing away a precious resource, polluting the air more than necessary, and perhaps raising gas prices for all of us by increasing demand.

We will never learn to conserve or seek new energy paradigms until we are forced to by the the disappearance of oil. As the supplies run out we will be forced to do these things as the price rises.

But we aren't to that point. There is no shortage of oil, there's a shortage of refining capacity. America has been forced to sit on vast amounts of oil that cannot be drilled for. Even if it were produced there is a shortage of refining capacity. Both problems are caused by the environ-mentalists, and I suppose there are a variety of reasons they feel a need to do these things. Drill and refine, use LNG, build more nuke plants, expand all that peripheral stuff that the greenies love, and step aside for a New World. It will take all those things in concert, but you can't seriously exclude petroleum and expect the world to hum along swimmingly.

There are huge amounts of oil still waiting to be found above and beyond what is already in the books. How can anybody say with a straight face that we've reached anything like peak oil? That's just silliness built on a huge pile of bs. Peak of production, maybe, but a point that was decided upon...not forced upon.

While we're at it, No, I don't believe in Global Warming any more than I believe in the boogeyman my Dad used to scare me with to get me to do things his way. Same priniciple, different abuser(s). Provable global warming and cooling have been happening since before mankind ever kindled a fire. Everthing else is conjecture. And there are a bucket full of equally big-deal scientists that think it's all a bunch of hooey.

Again, we will change when the change is forced upon us by natural and economic forces. Market forces. Not Chicken Littles (present company exlcuded).

And if we get to tell other people what they NEED and grab it out of their hands, that's a quick way to a new (un)civil war. Who are a bunch of hemp-clad sandal wearers to tell soccer moms or rednecks what suv or truck they can have? If you want solar panels dangling out of your ponytail, that's up to you. But I think it's the height of arrogance to think you are The Way and The Light about all things Neccessary. I vote No, thanks.

As an aside, I have no idea if you have a ponytail or wear hemp or sandals. Kind of a generic "you." Not trying to be mean or anything...

1) DONE!, and i added conservation of other resources as well!

2) DONE!, bought one, tho it's used.

3) CAN'T! out of my control. and besides, the US gov't in their infinite wisdom is blocking nuclear power, cancelling solar and other rebates, NOT conserving themselves...

so now what? financial stress MUST be relieved for those that ARE conserving, while slowly being squeezed to the point of ruin.

So what the "drill for oil" cartel is proposing is a continuation of the status quo because the king has clothes...they're just invisible.

Why are all jobs oil dependent? Why can't other industries spring up around new technologies that will alleviate that economical suffering?

Here is a PM I sent someone on a different forum not too long ago and I find it relates to the topic at hand so I might as well just share it with you:

Let the nit picking begin. :D

This entire sad kabuki dance is predicated on "facts" that haven't been proved.

Manmade global warming is far from settled. Peak oil is only a theory, while huge resources are discovered almost monthly. Radical environmentalism is the new religion and based on little more than emotion.

And, politicians follow along because emotion=money.

Truely sad.

drilling for oil domestically will keep oil dollars within the US. that is better than sending billions of dollars overseas. think about that.

we will use oil for years to come, I'd rather keep the billions here than overseas.

What has not been proven? That we are dependent on oil? That oil money ends up fueling wars? That oil and its by-products are harmful to the environment and pretty much every living thing, except maybe some bacteria? You seem to be pretty emotional yourself. To keep hitting that same key makes absolutely no sense. Who gives a rat's *** if the economy is good if you're destroying the environment in the process, people's health suffers and we're always on the brink?

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to look for viable alternatives and build industries around those alternatives instead?
You would rather turn the white polar cap black. That's what you are basically saying. Way to go. Since you don't seem to care about our collective backyard let me know where you live so I can also dump my waste in your backyard.

we're already using oil right now. drilling for oil can be done safely, technology is avialable now to extract oil safely and cleanly.

would you rather keep funding terrorists with our own dollars? oil will be used for a few ore decades. the best way to deal with the crisis is to drill our own oil and keep our money here, keep raising fuel efficiency, and keep searching for alternative fuels. you will not have any alternative fuel that will replace oil 100%. if you know of something that can do so right now then show us. in the meantime, folks like you who keep saying that we shouldn't drill will keep funding terrorists by sending all of our oil dollars to unfriendly countries.

the environment can be protected while we drill and use our own oil. we are using oil right now anyway so why not use the option of drilling our own oil and keep the money here. billions upon billions of dollars that can fuel our economy instead of foreign economies. what you don't think about is that we are already stuck in the oil trap and to keep the status quo of buying foreign oil will only keep draining the nation's coffers.

China is already drilling for oil 50 miles off the coast of Florida, you will keep us from drilling but you will never keep them from drilling. that's in our own coast, their technology is inferior, do you think they will care about our coast? the US could at least require better safe guards in the drilling operations, China and Cuba will not give a rat's *ss.

now back to your statement of "turning the polar ice cap black," WE ALREADY HAVE OIL OPERATIONS IN ALASKA, LAST I CHECKED, ALASKA IS STILL PRISTINE. additional drilling operations will not destroy Alaska, safeguards can be followed, funds can be derived from oil profits that can be set aside and used to pay for operations that will keep it clean.

China isn't drilling off the US coast.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40994.html

Cleanly is a realtive term in oil extraction. Getting the crude from the Canadian tar sands results in contaminated water held in man made lakes. The shale oil will require more water to refine thasn the tar sands.

There will come a time when oil is worth more for what can made from it, than for burning it. Better to save domestic reserves for that time.

just wanted to give an update to those interested...

at last count, a half million signatures has been achieved. 3 million is the goal. PLEASE sign the petition and tell everyone you know!--in person, by phone, email, whatever.
thank you.

it is ABSOLUTELY working. florida governor charlie crist is changing his view against drilling off the coast of "his" state.

China probably backtracked their plan. Chinese rigs have been spotted in that area before, it wouldn't be hard for them to remove them quickly:

Cuba, China Drilling for Oil 50 Miles from Florida Shores

House bill aims to end U.S. moratorium in waters twice as far from shore
Written By: James M. Taylor
Published In: Environment News
Publication Date: August 1, 2006
Publisher: The Heartland Institute


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Legislation to relax restrictions on offshore oil and gas recovery passed the U.S. House of Representatives Resources Committee on June 21 by a vote of 29-9.

House Resolution 4761, with more than 160 co-sponsors, gained significant attention after Cuba announced it would expand its leasing of oil and natural gas for Chinese drilling within 50 miles of the Florida Keys.

The House legislation would end all federal moratoria on resource recovery more than 100 miles from U.S. shores. Individual states would have the option of allowing recovery between 50 and 100 miles from their shores.

Currently, there is no blanket federal prohibition on resource recovery more than 100 miles from shore, but there are patchwork prohibitions established on a case-by-case basis. There is currently a blanket moratorium on resource recovery less than 100 miles from shore. These restrictions amount to a self-imposed moratorium on 85 percent of the nation's offshore oil reserves.


China Drilling Near Florida

The presence of Chinese oil rigs, there by agreement with Cuba, within view of the Florida coastline has irked state residents. Cuba has announced it will expand those operations.

"I saw all kinds of wells with Chinese writing on them just south of the Keys," Leonard Gropper, a Marathon, Florida retiree, told the June 20 Orlando Sun-Sentinel.

With just 90 miles separating Cuba and the Florida Keys, Cuba has legal rights to oil and natural gas reserves in its half of the Florida Strait. Cuba can, therefore, produce or lease for production oil and natural gas reserves as close as 45 miles from U.S. shores.

"China is trying to lock up resources around the world, and they are locking up resources in our own backyard where we can't even compete and play ball," Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID) told the Sun-Sentinel. "This is simply wrong. I've had enough, and I believe the American people have had enough."


Needs Are Changing

The U.S. moratorium was imposed during the 1990s when oil prices were low and the need for new production seemed distant. Those days are long gone, observes Heritage Foundation Senior Policy Analyst Ben Lieberman.

"While fears of environmental damage trumped price concerns in the 1990s, times have changed. Technological advances have greatly reduced environmental risks, and oil prices are much higher now and do not appear likely to appreciably decline any time soon," said Lieberman.

"The changing nature of the situation is being driven home very starkly with the [construction] of Chinese oil rigs within sight of U.S. shores," Lieberman added. "The Chinese can drill within sight of our coastline, but we cannot. In fact, we cannot drill even twice as far away from the U.S. coastline as the Chinese do. This does not sit well with many people in Florida."

https://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=19479
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it does not mean that they will not resume operations there. as far as "cleanly" as a relative term, yes it sure is relative.

tar sands oil will destory the area they are being mined at...that's Canada's choice to harvest oil from it.

as far as shale oil using more water in order to refine it, that depends on how the shale oil will be processed. mining the shale is not a good option, Shell's plan to heat the ground to release the oil is a better alternative and IT IS CLEANER compared to Exxon's old process of mining the shales and using steam to release the oil.

it's still a better alternative than to send dollars overseas for oil and fund terrorists. I do agree that there will come a time where oil would be too costly to burn, I don't see that time coming anytime soon. again, there is no single alternative that can replaced oil. so the status quo is still being pushed to be kept in place - buy oil from foreign countries instead of keeping oil profits locally and use part of the profits to fund alternative fuel research.

You want your economy to flourish? You want to stop wasting oil and funding terrorists? Stop the war.

Do you have any idea of the debt the U.S. is in? Do you have any clue as to how much fuels is spent daily because of this pointless war?

[sarcasm]Maybe that has nothing to do with the hole you dug for yourselves and everyone else.[/sarcasm] No it isn't just the emergence of China and India. You also bear a great responsibility for the state we're in.

As for the alaskan oil exploration...
https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/.../spill.650.jpg

yep...pristine indeed. All it takes is a bunch of little "oops" and...

ah the usual "oil spill" photos that "proves" we are destroying our envirnment.

what happens to oil before it was harvested? it will burst out of the ground when nature is done with the cooking process. so we stop harvesting oil, let nature take its course and it burst out of the ground making everything messy. who would we blame for that "oil spill" then.

I am well aware of how much debt the US has. are you aware that a lot of that debt can be reduced if we stop buying billions of dollars in foreign oil and instead use those dollars locally?

so are we just supposed to keep buying foreign oil and keep sending the dollars overseas then? keep funding terrorists? until you can offer actual practical technologies that are affordable by the avergage american family, we will need oil, and as I've been saying all along, I'd rather keep those dollars within the US instead of giving them to countries that are hell bent on our destruction.

will there be effects on the environment, sure, will we be able to clean it up, yes. how will we pay for it? oil profits kept locally. funds can be set up for it since the oil dollars are kept locally. rather see those dollars be used in cleaning up the environment than to see them buy bombs and pay for suicide bombers. that to me is a good trade off.

Every year more oil seeps from the ground than is spilled by humans. It's hardly as big a deal as the anti's make it out to be.

There wasn't even an oil spill in the gulf during or after Katrina, and hundreds of rigs sustained damage.

A non-point.

Just a reminder, please visit the website and sign the petition. :thumbup:

signed it. Over a million now.