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Old 06-11-2008, 04:14 PM   #1
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http://www.americansolutions.com/act...b-346a1e096659

for those of you who would like to make your voice heard about domestic drilling for oil. not sure how much good it will do, but it just costs a few minutes of your time.

i recommend contacting your congressmen to let them know that he/she will not get your vote for next term w/out supporting domestic drilling for oil.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:31 PM   #2
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The idea of drilling for more domestic oil to solve our energy problems is a flawed argument.

The amount of ANWR oil that is feasible to extract would meet only 1% of projected US demand over 50 years. The amount of economically affordable, not just technically possible, oil to recover from ANWR is only a little more than 3 billion barrels, or about 6 months of our current consumption (never mind our consumption 10 years from now when the first drop of ANWR oil would flow if drilling were allowed today) if that were the only oil we were using.

The best source of oil is the oil that was never used....conservation is always the best option for reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Displacing the year 2000 Persian Gulf imports would only take a 3.25 mpg increase in overall fuel economy. Educate yourself. Read more info in the article at this link:

http://rmi.org/images/PDFs/EnergySec..._USESFtext.pdf
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:06 AM   #3
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Oil is also needed for plastics and other chemical feedstocks. Better to save the domestic reserves for that, instead of burning it.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:29 AM   #4
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Anybody that complains about the price of oil while at the same time professing the belief we should not seek new ways to produce and refine should be thrown overboard with much celebration and many mugs of grog.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:07 AM   #5
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Even if domestic oil (shale, alaska, etc.) don't prove to be the end-all-be-all cure, at least the process of getting this oil from the ground will help American industry. WIth the huge trade deficit, and the loss of the American manufacturing base, some meaningful jobs like this would be a huge help to the American economy. The US cannot survive only as a service economy, which is where we are headed.

It may not solve all of the energy problems, but it can be a significant part of an economic solution.

-Bob C.
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:54 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mr Incredible View Post
Anybody that complains about the price of oil while at the same time professing the belief we should not seek new ways to produce and refine should be thrown overboard with much celebration and many mugs of grog.
Well, I wasn't complaining about the price of oil. I think it's rather good for us...painful in the short term, but it will finally kick our addiction to inefficient vehicles (SUV sales are down almost 50% vs. a year ago) and promote conservation (no only in our vehicle use but also in our buildings) and improved fuel efficiency. Automakers, even GM, clearly get it now.

It is much cheaper to conserve than to drill for new oil.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:09 PM   #7
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Even if domestic oil (shale, alaska, etc.) don't prove to be the end-all-be-all cure, at least the process of getting this oil from the ground will help American industry. WIth the huge trade deficit, and the loss of the American manufacturing base, some meaningful jobs like this would be a huge help to the American economy. The US cannot survive only as a service economy, which is where we are headed.

It may not solve all of the energy problems, but it can be a significant part of an economic solution.

-Bob C.
Is "meaningful jobs" a good reason to drill for new sources of domestic oil? While we're at it, why don't we start ramping up production of SUVs again? That would create meaningful jobs as well, right? I think you folks aren't looking at the big picture. Our oil woes are not from lack of supply or lack of domestic supply but rather from our 100 year addiction to cheap oil. Now we're paying the price. Our economy and lifestyle as it currently exists is not sustainable with oil as our primary energy source. With Peak Oil close at hand or already here, and with the Bushevik regime in bed with Big Oil, and Big Investment Firms, it's easy for oil prices to be manipulated. And our corporate media is guilty of perpetuating the "oil crisis" propaganda in order to keep prices high. Oil prices will eventually stabilize when demand drops substantially from conservation and better fuel efficiency. Conservation is always cheaper than finding new sources of oil.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:57 PM   #8
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I give up, cems70, please tell me exactly why your side wants the US to stop oil cold turkey and suffer unneccessarily with extreme withdrawal symptoms...when there is nothing other than the unproven Peak Oil idea. Even then, what's the difference whether we hit the wall sooner rather than later?

Isn't that what you all want? No More Oil (polluting the world)? Regardless of the costs to our modern world?

Why do you care whether somebody has an SUV? What is the real problem you have with the very existance of oil and its use???
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:19 PM   #9
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Is "meaningful jobs" a good reason to drill for new sources of domestic oil?
Yes as far as I can tell, although for some reason you don't seem to think so.

You have to not only consider the unemployment rate, but the underemployment rate. If you get skilled workers gainfully & constructively employed, then that will help the entire US economy. A stronger economy will lead to a stronger dollar, and decrease the price of imported goods. And, a stronger dollar will allow more resources to be dedicated to reducing oil consumption.

Not sure where you are going with the comment about SUVs, since there is

Should we also seek to decrease our oil consumption? Of course! The fewer goods we import (including oil), the stronger the dollar will be.

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Old 06-12-2008, 05:31 PM   #10
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I give up, cems70, please tell me exactly why your side wants the US to stop oil cold turkey and suffer unneccessarily with extreme withdrawal symptoms...when there is nothing other than the unproven Peak Oil idea. Even then, what's the difference whether we hit the wall sooner rather than later?

Isn't that what you all want? No More Oil (polluting the world)? Regardless of the costs to our modern world?

Why do you care whether somebody has an SUV? What is the real problem you have with the very existance of oil and its use???
I'm not advocating that we stop using oil cold turkey...in fact that's not even possible with the way we have developed our infrastructure (lot of roads, lots of far away suburbs that require long commutes to work in the major metro areas). What I'm advocating is to use this period of rising oil prices to 1) learn how to conserve (i.e drive less, car pool, use public transportation etc.), 2) start manufacturing more fuel efficient vehicles, and 3) put lots of money into research for the next generation of alternative fuels and technology to propel our vehicles of the future.

Unproven Peak Oil theory, eh? Do you also believe that Global Warming is just a natural warming cycle of the earth? There are some very credible geologists, government officials, academics and investment bankers that know a hell of a lot. Do you want to know about giant oil fields like Ghawar in Saudi Arabia or Canterelle in Mexico that are collapsing in terms of output? Or the fact that the oil production curve mirrors the discovery curve of oil deposits, usually about thirty or forty years later? That said discovery curve for the world peaked back in the late 60's? That all of the big oil producing nations cooked their books on their reserves back in the 1980's, so by stating higher reserves they could sell more oil? That Saudi Arabia, the world's largest producer, is likely (based on Int'l Energy Agency spreadsheets of monthly output) to have peaked in production back in May of 2005? In your quest for truth, you might want to check out Colin Campbell, Paul Roberts, Richard Heinberg, Julian Darley, Kenneth Duffeyes, websites like Energy Bulletin, The Oil Drum, etc. Maybe there's some debate about the precise date for Peak Oil, but this much is true: oil is a finite resource and all the data points to declining oil production. If it hasn't happened already, it's coming very soon.

So what's the difference whether we hit the wall sooner rather than later? I think it's a a big difference. We are in a transition period, and resource peaks and limits are often not apparent until we are well into the decline side of the curve. But is that really when you want to be realizing that you're in serious trouble? I think we should be using this period of transition to prepare ourselves for a very different world without oil or without cheap oil. This is the time to conserve and to continue to develop alternative energy technologies so that our transition from an oil economy is a smoother one. It is not the time to be drilling for more oil domestically.

Finally, why do I care if someone has an SUV? If the SUV is not a necessary vehicle for that person (and clearly, most people do not need an SUV), then that excessive fuel consumption is pissing away a precious resource, polluting the air more than necessary, and perhaps raising gas prices for all of us by increasing demand.
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