Read it and weep
 

that sucks. I would get one if I were in europe

I would TOTALLY buy that car!

Looks like that design is coming over here to replace the current Focus. I think I may hold out on the new car for a bit! Even if it is gas that car is kinda slick!

I would never buy a dirty diesel like that when the fuel costs 25% more than gasoline. I would be much more impressed with a gasoline engine that gets 52mpg.

the fact is we won't see a car that gets 52mpg in the states, nor will we see this car in the states.

and diesel only runs 15-20% higer around here. gas hit over 4 at the max (I think it was 4.25) but diesel never hit 5. not around here that I remember

I will not weep. I'll just move countries.

48 city, 58 highway, 52 combined.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...f.jsp?id=21632
This is on the realistic EPA cycle. Not he fantasy football euro cycle.

Uneducated opinions like that are why they will not come to the USA. Diesel technology has made Diesel burn as clean or better than gasoline. A Diesel Hybrid would be the best combo available right now...then a small diesel...then a gasoline hybrid...then a gas sipper.

That's fine by me. Fewer diesels here means more diesel fuel supply. More diesel fuel supply means less pressure on the biodiesel supply I prefer.
You go on driving your 58 mpg gasoline-electric Insight and I'll drive my 50 mpg (50.224 on a recent 900 mile trip) 2005 Passat wagon on B100.
Want to compete on a total (including greenhouse gas) gram per mile emission rate? You'll need to get the gasoline powered vehicle up to 200 mpg to be greener.
Note my sig: I think, therefore soy

My fave is a derivative of Descartes: Coito, ergo sum.

BEEF: If you were in Europe you would also be paying about triple what you pay in America for fuel.

Oh really? Have you looked into the component cost of a diesel particulate filter lately? Do you know the difference between T2B5 vs LEV, SULEV and PZEV in terms of start up NOx emissions? How about the effect of a continued start stop cycle on a diesel particulate filter and NOx trap in something like... oh i don't know a diesel electric hybrid?
The sad truth is its more expensive to clean up the exhaust of a diesel to meet California emissions than to build a hybrid. Add in the 25% premium for fuel and all of a sudden diesel is toast in America. Most of the industry gets it. VW and Mercedes are losing money on the TDIs and CDIs bringing into the country today. They are hoping and praying that if they can establish brand name for themselves to the point where TDI is synonymous for diesel in the general public's mind, by the time the cost of exhaust after treatment comes down they'll have an established market share in this country. Unfortunately just like catalytic converters, diesel particulate filters use precious metals. You can cut down on the use of precious metals and improve long term reliability with chemical after treatment. But when you add up the cost of all the emissions control devices ( temp sensors, O2 sensors, 2 catalytic converters, particulate trap and Addblue tank and hoses etc.) the cost becomes astronomical. This is on top of the cost of the engine itself and the $100 a pop piezo injectors. The rest of the ECU, wiring and sensors for a diesel engine are on par with gasoline engines. Even turbos are cheap these days.

You know the "bean counters" that everyone likes to hate whenever a car interior looks too cheap or an engine option doesn't make it to America? I'm one of them.

I know that the euro market is about 3x our cost as far as fuel. that is why I wouldn't move

also, the insight does get better MPG but now you deal with batteries and they don't make them anymore. I know the prius needs it batteries swapped every 5-10 years at a cost of 3+k which makes me not want a hybrid. also it makes fixing it yourself almost not possible or not worth it. plus the added cost of the hybrid vs conventional vehicles. if that vehicle was made in the states, they could probably sell it for half that cost. there again they wouldn't recoup the initial investment thus we won't see it.

mostly due to people that don't like the diesels. as stated in the report

Emissions chemical replacement and the premium price for ULSTDF is going to hurt US diesel sales, despite the newer light duty diesels about to appear in showrooms. I own a Ford diesel now, but I won't consider a new diesel truck for those reasons.

For light duty trucks, only Ford has my answer in development: A turbochaged lean burn direct injection V6. This F 150 engine will approach diesel efficiency at a cost far below diesel.

So, I'm going to drive my old diesel until the wheels fall off, or somebody makes a 25 mpg 4x4 truck.

1: No contest that DPF are costly, but as costly as Evap systems, 3 way cats, O2 sensors and all the other clap-trap needed to clean up gasoline engines?
2: What 25% diesel premium? My B100 biodiesel, purchased at retail, set me back $3.999 last Saturday. Find me $3.20 gallon gasoline. When I can get it, a friend who makes his own biodiesel sells his occasional surplus production at his cost, $1.20 gallon last time. When did you last see $0.999 gasoline?
The added operating efficiency of the compression ignition engine makes the fuel go further. If the price per gallon difference were indeed 25% , the fuel efficiency difference of 40% would still result in a per mile cost reduction
3: VW and Mercedes (and Ford, and Chrysler, and GM) sell diesels in Europe at a premium, because consumers there 'get' it. The consumers there have analyzed the cost / benefit and make a decision and prefer diesels because of their lower fuel cost, lower operation cost, lower environmental cost. In addition to the CO, HC and NOx, they also rank the CO2, which is by far the greatest emission and something the LEV, SULEV, PZEV classifications convieniently choose to ignore.
Roughly 55% of passenger vehicles sold in Europe are diesel. Why should the manufacturers there pay to ship cars here to sell when they can command a premium at home and not spending the shipping costs?
If it weren't for the domestic auto manufacturer's profitable European operations, and their 55% diesel production, the US operations would haven been shuttered for lack of operating funds.
4: VW is able to beat the CARB limits of tier2 bin5 without the Urea 'ad-blue' pretreatment. I won't pretend that T2B5 is an ideal or a final goal, but it is a big hurdle.
5: Injectors are significantly more costly than $100. Was that a typo? $1,000 is more like it. Fortunately they don't fail or require replacement at a high attrition rate.

Self avowed "bean counter"? Well, better that than used car sales or personal injury lawyer...

sludgy,

the fact is that the wheels probably will fall off before the engine gives out. diesel engines last a lot longer than gas is what I am getting at.

there are a few "million mile" clubs. most of them are diesel cars. hard to find gas engines with a million on the clock.

another reason to get a diesel.

Yeah i agree i have three diesels two over 200,000 and one over 350,000
they last a long time and are still running great. Infact i keep really good care of my cars so there is little if no rust on any of them and that is hard to do with ohio's road salt and weather

The million mile diesels are interesting, but I don't see why 200,000 miles is special. I routinely see more than that on gas engines, and rarely see gas engines fail with so few miles on them. Mainly I see the rest of the vehicle falling apart before the engine, which makes me wonder why anyone would care to have an engine that can last a million miles.

Yeah i guess just in the area im from i talk to people and most of there cars get way to expensive to fix once they get above 100,000. So i thought that since i am over 200,000 and still not having to do that much repairs i thought was pretty impressive, i probably should have checked with more people other than the ones i know

the diesel trucks usually last as long as the engine.

I come from farm land so I know how rough farmers can be on a truck and they want it to last 15-20 years. that is where the diesels really shine. those trucks (3 qtr to 1 ton) are made to run for a long time because the people that usually buy them intend to use them. half tons are made differently than they used to. I think the larger ones are still built just as strong. I am giving all large truck makers credit on this one and not saying one is better than the other because they all make lemons and they all make awesome trucks...it depends on your experience with them more than anything

Dealer cost on the DPF for a Ford diesel is $4500.

Thank you, EPA for killing the diesel in the US.

yes but for that extra cost don't you get better gas mileage and twice the torque?

I agree that the diesel upgrade for most trucks is pricey but to see the long term gains from it, you have to pay the premium price

Yeah i agree over the life time of the vehicle it is worth it to spend that extra money but if you are just going to have it for a little bit say a lease then it is up to you whether it is worth it or not. But if you want your car to last a long time i would definately recommend a diesel. So worth the extra money :D

leases are just a bad idea in general. give a dealer 2 or 3k to rent their vehicle for sometimes as little as 2 years. all of that "due at signing" fees really turn me off to any sort of lease.

some companies were doing it so you didn't have the initial start up cost which was better.

yeah my dads friend sells/leases dumptrucks to people and he says he makes three times as much on a lease as he does a sale.

I like leases.
I mean, I like that other people lease. I bought my '05 TDI when the prior 'user', who had been depreciating it as a business expense went over miles and couldn't take any more business deduction, so he turned it in, took the early cancellation penalty (just another business deduction), and leased an '08. The leasing company got their hi-mile money, early termination money and had no use for the car. I bought it cheap, really cheap.

That is as good of reason as any to like a lease. thats awesome congrats on your good deal

I was more talking about the people that lease the vehicles but that does bring up a good point.

like buying program vehicles. usually less than 10K on the dial and used to be a lot less than the sticker.

here's a good reason...

https://www.wayodd.com/man-finally-ge...le-car/v/6031/

i couldn't find the rest of the story, but a radio program locally claimed the car was in great operating condition but no longer safe to drive(frame falling apart). also, it was the original drivetrain(no rebuilds) run on amsoil since break-in.

Read it and weep
 

rnIt saddens me to think how far and how fast we have slid.
rnI wonder what it will take to wake this country up. I mean if folks are not mad now are we done as a free country?rn

were about to have healthcare chosen for us, or against our wills or be charged for it. i would venture to guess that we are in trouble in the U.S.S.A.
(United So******t States of America).

let's hope the senate will put a stop to it!

Dictionary says:

insurance
Noun
1. the agreement by which one makes regular payments to a company who pay an agreed sum if damage, loss, or death occurs
2. the money paid for insurance or by an insurance company
3. a means of protection: sensible insurance against heart attacks


Not only is that NOT healthcare, but it is OT!!

Thanks for extending the OT, comrade.