Fuelly Forums

Fuelly Forums (https://www.fuelly.com/forums/)
-   General Discussion (Off-Topic) (https://www.fuelly.com/forums/f22/)
-   -   Trump Skeptical about Global Warming due to Humans (https://www.fuelly.com/forums/f22/trump-skeptical-about-global-warming-due-to-humans-19139.html)

ChewChewTrain 02-01-2017 06:15 PM

Trump Skeptical about Global Warming due to Humans
 
I use to "buy" into the climate change battle cry. Now, I'm unsure.

But with...

American main stream media lying about Clinton being a slam dunk election winner,

the Democratic National Committee caught cheating Bernie Saunders (who I vote for in the DNC primary),

Hillary Clinton smashing Blackberries to hide evidence,

Hillary losing an FBI subpoenaed laptop "in the mail",

Hillary caught lying before Congress 5+ times and nothing happens to her under Obama's administration,

Hillary having a private email server and, again, Obama's administration doesn't prosecute,

and Obama expanding the Bush wars from 2 countries to 7,

...I've become skeptical of what the government and major media feeds me.

Now, I'm unsure about global warming. Like a stockbroker that moves stock recommendations from "buy", "hold", and "sell". My global warming belief has moved from "buy" to "hold", if not "sell" status.

This 9 minute video with a Princeton physics professor about global warming is thought provoking. Thought you might enjoy keeping an open mind on the subject, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lye5liWuZw

This 9 minute video with the Weather Channel founder is also worth a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQshyqCLYHo

trollbait 02-02-2017 05:09 AM

The consensus on Global Warming and its causes isn't the product of government or the media, but from decades of scientific research.

Draigflag 02-02-2017 06:17 AM

Trump doesn't seem to care much about research or statistics, like terror related statics for example, 94% of terror attacks are by non-Muslim minorities, even Jewish extremism kills more people. Remind me which religious group he just discriminated against again???

ChewChewTrain 02-02-2017 10:21 AM

3 scientists with 100 years of combined in field experience comment on global warming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C35pasCr6KI

SteveMak 02-05-2017 03:22 PM

My understanding is that about 97% of the world's scientific community believes that mass global climate change is real, and that humans play a very significant role in it.

Personally, I think that's likely correct, though I don't know if the popular belief is right. Still, regardless if they're right or not, I believe in earnest that the fundamental concepts of clean air, clean water, and clean land are sound ones! I also view the "need to balance that with economic practicalities" is double-talk (or Orwellian "New Speak") for "Profit over Environment and Health". Everyone has their own priorities. Big Business is saying "screw the environment and the people; we wanna make more money with nothing to slow us down" while environmentalist are saying "make your wealth in a way that does not injure the rest of us." That's different from being "anti-business", as Big Business likes to portray these so-called Eco-Terrorists and Enviro-Nazis (both terms used by the extremely wealthy to vilify the others).

Also, in light of The Leader's recent gag orders, in which scientists working for various government funded institutions are forbidden to talk about the C-word (Climate Change), we need to remember that this is not an act of brushing off the lone lunatic screaming "The Sky Is Falling." This is an act to censor the voice of the majority, of the most knowledgeable and most learned, the best authorities on the topic, because their beliefs are inconsistent with Government Doctrine.

The Government will be the official distributor of information. They'll protect you from the lies. They'll make sure you get The Truth.


(PS: I don't believe that everything said by government officials is a lie. I do believe that what they say is primarily self-serving, be it truth or lie.)

trollbait 02-06-2017 07:41 AM

need a like button

Draigflag 02-06-2017 09:05 AM

Yep i'd agree with most of that too.

ChewChewTrain 02-06-2017 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMak (Post 192847)
My understanding is that about 97% of the world's scientific community believes that mass global climate change is real, and that humans play a very significant role in it.

In that earlier video I posted here, a Princeton professor says (paraphrasing) that, yes, nearly all scientists agree that the climate IS changing due to a rise in CO2.

What scientists DISAGREE on, and what most lay people are NOT told, is whether or not people are responsible for the CO2 rise. At the time of his interview, he went on to say, that the CO2 level is currently is 300ppm. And, historically speaking, BEFORE the burning of ANY fossil fuel by mankind, the earth's CO2 level has been documented to have been as high as 3,000ppm.

In short, they media conflates scientific agreement on climate change, which is nearly unanimous, witg whether humans are responsible for the rise in CO2 or not, which there IS disagreement within the scientific community.

One Ivy League scientist has quit the academic life due to ALL the fraud she has observed. She says ALL the research $$$ goes to those that "tow the party line" that mankind is responsible for climate change. In other words, there's NO research money available for investigating otherwise.

This is the SAME control Big Food has over university food research. ZERO research $$$ is available if you don't agree to prove that obesity is due to lack of activity rather than sugar.

SteveMak 02-06-2017 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 192877)
...What scientists DISAGREE on, and what most lay people are NOT told, is whether or not people are responsible for the CO2 rise...

My understanding is that this is merely FUD promoted by climate change deniers. That's why The Leader in the US has a gag order on scientists in government-funded institutions banning them from talking about climate change, rather than giving the 97% of the scientific community the opportunity to "clear the air" (pun intended) and state for the public record, on camera, with lots of publicity and air time "about one half of us (or whatever percentage you believe it is) firmly believe that climate change is not caused or promoted by human factors." Nothing even remotely close to this had ever, or is now happening.

We do not have a massive upswell from the scientific community about the alleged "disagreement" as to whether humans are responsible, in whole or in part, for the massive climate change we are experiencing.

It appears, at least according to the vast majority of the scientific community that can get their word out, that they believe humans DO play a prominent role in the climate mess we are in.

If this perspective is in fact true, then The Leader's gag order makes perfect sense, as this information is contrary to the current US Government administration's doctrine on climate change.

The official US Government Doctrine on climate change, as per the current administration, is that Climate Change not happening, therefore humans aren't responsible. They assert that Climate Change is a hoax perpetrated by anti-business Eco-Terrorists and Enviro-Nazis. No discussion required. The gag order supports this position (where no discussion is legally permitted).

LDB 02-06-2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draigflag (Post 192783)
Trump doesn't seem to care much about research or statistics, like terror related statics for example, 94% of terror attacks are by non-Muslim minorities, even Jewish extremism kills more people. Remind me which religious group he just discriminated against again???

Where does that 94% number come from? And he didn't discriminate against any religious group. He instituted a travel ban on certain nations just like Obama did. And Clinton. And Carter. All democrats. And others as well.

ChewChewTrain 02-06-2017 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDB (Post 192881)
Where does that 94% number come from? And he didn't discriminate against any religious group. He instituted a travel ban on certain nations just like Obama did. And Clinton. And Carter. All democrats. And others as well.

That is correct. It is a nation specific, 90 day review. For example, Indonesia, mostly Muslim, is NOT under review.

It's is NOT a ban, per se, as well. It's merely a 90 day review period.

Those 7 nations under review were named by the Obama administration. So why didn't the left protest that?

SteveMak 02-06-2017 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 192882)
...So why didn't the left protest that?...

Frankly, I'm put off by people defending their point of view by pointing at others who allegedly perpetrated yet greater wrongs.

In this respect, the world has changed little since the UseNet days of a decade ago.

The question I pose to any human being: Do you think, choose, and act from a place of love and compassion?

Often, the response I get is "F*ck you! I care for my own", or what I call "excused hatred," justified through one's own beliefs. Indirectly, they have answered my question.

ChewChewTrain 02-06-2017 12:55 PM

There's nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy.

Place of love and compassion? Of course! Starts with family, friends, fellow citizens, and works outward. If concern for our security hurts someone's feelings, we owe nobody an apology.

If other nations want to lower their immigration qualifications with lax vetting that's THEIR business.

In light of the European terrorism due to their lax immigration vetting, What's so horrible with the USA pausing for 90 days to review our immigration vetting process in the name of national security?

SteveMak 02-06-2017 01:26 PM

ChewChewTrain: Remember that your neighbors to the north (Canada, where I live), has had a much more open (lax?) attitude towards foreigners and "The Terror Threat" than the US. And to make matters "worse", the Canadian Prime Minister recently announced he'll open the doors to even more Muslims and refugees.

The puzzling thing here is, why has Canada, with its lax attitude and lack of "vigilance" towards terrorism, not experienced the same fear and problems the US has, not even on a per capita basis, not even close? Surely those numbers will skyrocket soon, with more Muslims and more refugees arriving. Right? And if it doesn't, as it hasn't in the past, then what?

Well, I guess it's because the bad guys focus their hate on America because of their Freedom. Obviously Canada is less free, and therefore less hated, and of less interest to the bad guys. Or maybe the bad guys focus on America because it's the best nation on Earth? Canada? Not the best. It's just bad-guy jealousy wanting to take the best down a notch. Maybe that's why the benign Muslims and refugees head towards Canada (not so free, not the best), while the evil ones are stopped by vigilant US efforts. Or maybe it's just dumb Canadian luck?

I don't know, but such are the unquestioned beliefs that abound.

Draigflag 02-06-2017 01:52 PM

Terrorism is it a much lower rate now than it was in the 70's and 80's, I can't believe how much focus there is on this. The chances of even being involved in an act of terrorism are minuscule, more people are killed in the US by refrigerators falling on them than by terrorists.

We must also remember that the Muslim population are the biggest victims of terrorism, and have more forces fighting against ISIS than the Western World. That's why stupid "travel bans" bug me, we should show more respect to our allies, friends and heroes, they're loosing more people and fighting harder than we are, to snub them because of thier religious beliefs is about as low as you can get in my opinion.

ChewChewTrain 02-06-2017 02:03 PM

Steve, yep. You're right. unlike Canada, the USA has enemies bent on our destruction.

I fault the USA with how we got into this pickle. Pausing 90 days to review our immigration vetting is a step towards cleaning up "all this spilled milk on our floor".

I voted twice for Obama believing he would end the two wars; Irag and Afghanistan. After 8 years, Obama expanded Bush's 2 wars into bombing 7 different nations. There was SO much bombing in 2016 that the US bomb arsenal was COMPLETELY depleted!

Obama is a charming, eloquent speaker, and a black President. That made him a liberal media darling and scrutiny-proof; such as bailing out the banks, but not prosecuting bank executives that caused of the 2008 financial collapse. What a let down.

I just wish all the USA military adventures were pulled back and all that $$$ was spent internally, such as giving relief for all the college student debt. The average student graduates with $30k debt.

And, when I say military withdrawal I mean NATO and ALL foreign military bases. The US spends more $$$ per year than ALL the rest of the world combined. I'm fed up with all this killing and creating enemies in an unwinnable war.

BTW, I'm Canadian through my Mum's side. She was born in Edmonton and raised in Vancouver.

Have you seen the movie "Canadian Bacon"? It pokes fun at Canada. What's ironic is most of the comedians in the movie ARE Canadian.

ChewChewTrain 02-06-2017 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draigflag (Post 192889)
...to snub them because of thier religious beliefs is about as low as you can get in my opinion.

Paul, when one's religious belief is that I convert or you have license to kill me that's where my compassion turns into my survival.

Islam is Sharia law / politics conveniently wrapped in the protection of calling itself a "religion".

SteveMak 02-06-2017 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 192891)
...Islam is Sharia law / politics conveniently wrapped in the protection of calling itself a "religion"...

To believe that all Muslims are "Islam as the US understands it," and to believe that Islam is all about Sharia law, is similar to believing that all Americans are Christian[1], and Christianity is all about hating gays and putting them to death[2] and controlling women's reproduction, and keeping women subservient to men.

You and I know this is not what America is about, nor what most Christian Americans are about, but someone outside looking in, and judging from a place of fear, could easily come to that (mis)understanding! Personally, I am not concerned about Christians or even American Christians. I am concerned about conservative American Christians, who have power, and who move to impose their beliefs upon others. Other people might not make this distinction I do.


_____
[1] Christianity is the US's most popular religion, with even the majority of secular Americans believing is a God who originated from Judeo-Christian tradition. Conservative Christian views and values are not separated from Government.

[2] Leviticus 20:13 (King James Version) "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Draigflag 02-06-2017 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 192891)
Paul, when one's religious belief is that I convert or you have license to kill me that's where my compassion turns into my survival.

Islam is Sharia law / politics conveniently wrapped in the protection of calling itself a "religion".

Seriously Doug, I like you, you're a nice guy and that. But when did a Muslim ever say that to you? I've grown up with Muslim friends, they would be in absolute hysteria reading some of this stuff. I feel like you guys over the pond live in a little cocoon sometimes and get fed some absolute trash by the media sensations over there. If you're going to Base opinions on these kind of things, you need to either travel the World, meet people and make your own mind up, or dedicate a huge chunk of life to research of facts and statistics through careful sourcing.

Draigflag 02-06-2017 02:27 PM

For good measure from the quran (Muslims Bible to you guys)

"Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.”

SteveMak 02-06-2017 02:32 PM

Draigflag: (big LIKE to your post #19) When I meet a Muslim, I start with the assumption that they're just regular folks (AKA "not a terrorist, not an extremist"). So far, this attitude has allowed me to live happily and peacefully with other humans, including Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, secular folks, and others.

I don't know whether I am lucky, or "right" in my beliefs, but so far, they have only brought me, and others[1], more peace and joy.

Speaking solely for myself, I would rather die a peaceful, loving, and compassionate being, than to live my life in fear, suspicion, and distrust. But that's just me.

_____
[1] Except to those folks who believe I am uninformed, naive, and unrealistic, and are angered by my chosen way of being.

trollbait 02-06-2017 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 192877)
In that earlier video I posted here, a Princeton professor says (paraphrasing) that, yes, nearly all scientists agree that the climate IS changing due to a rise in CO2.

What scientists DISAGREE on, and what most lay people are NOT told, is whether or not people are responsible for the CO2 rise. At the time of his interview, he went on to say, that the CO2 level is currently is 300ppm. And, historically speaking, BEFORE the burning of ANY fossil fuel by mankind, the earth's CO2 level has been documented to have been as high as 3,000ppm.

In short, they media conflates scientific agreement on climate change, which is nearly unanimous, witg whether humans are responsible for the rise in CO2 or not, which there IS disagreement within the scientific community.

One Ivy League scientist has quit the academic life due to ALL the fraud she has observed. She says ALL the research $$$ goes to those that "tow the party line" that mankind is responsible for climate change. In other words, there's NO research money available for investigating otherwise.

This is the SAME control Big Food has over university food research. ZERO research $$$ is available if you don't agree to prove that obesity is due to lack of activity rather than sugar.

I admit to not reading a huge number, but the the climate change papers I have read have all admitted that today's climate change is caused by man. Even the ones which have charts and lines pulled out by the anti-AGW sites as proof that climate change isn't happening. What I've seen of the anti-AGW data is FUD. They do cry about lack of funds, but the raw data, like temperature records and satellite measurements is freely available.

If the CO2 concentrations increasing isn't from man burning fossil fuels, then where is it coming from. Natural sources like volcanoes are well studied, and, again, the data is available. Published satellite imaging shows CO2 concentrations higher around cities, and not these natural sources.

The anti-AGW side isn't offering alternate hypothesis to why CO2 is rising, or what is driving the climate change instead for the most part. Some even deny CO2 has any affect on the environment.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 192882)
That is correct. It is a nation specific, 90 day review. For example, Indonesia, mostly Muslim, is NOT under review.

It's is NOT a ban, per se, as well. It's merely a 90 day review period.

Those 7 nations under review were named by the Obama administration. So why didn't the left protest that?

Why the exemption for religious minorities from those countries? Why repeatedly referring to it as a Muslim ban in the media? Why call for a 90 day ban, when those countries are already under some of the strictest visa vetting in the world? Why not expand the list to countries where the 9/11 hijackers actually came from?

This ban is merely political posturing to appease Trump's base that does the opposite of protecting the country by providing terrorist groups with propaganda for recruiting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 192891)
Paul, when one's religious belief is that I convert or you have license to kill me that's where my compassion turns into my survival.

Islam is Sharia law / politics conveniently wrapped in the protection of calling itself a "religion".

Anti-abortionists have committed murder and other crimes against those that don't believe as they do. I don't recall any in the US being Muslim.

frugalkoenig 02-20-2017 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draigflag (Post 192889)
Terrorism is it a much lower rate now than it was in the 70's and 80's, I can't believe how much focus there is on this. The chances of even being involved in an act of terrorism are minuscule, more people are killed in the US by refrigerators falling on them than by terrorists.

The difference is that there isn't a substantial population of refrigerators causing US deaths because they would like to see a refrigerator caliphate.

There is a focus on this because events like the WTC bombing, 9/11, the Fort Hood shooting and the San Bernadino attack all involve actors claiming a specific motive for their acts.

Increased scrutiny of immigrants from countries that are home to like minded movements and non-existent security services that would allow meaningful vetting seems a prudent and modest option.


I'm wondering whether the life of a muslim in a stable canadian or american legal environment gives the best perspective on this issue. My muslim friends are pakistani and Saudi. They saw retrograde muslim populations as a problem decades before 9/11. The Shah was part of a 40 year movement to bring his people into a more cosmopolitan and functional world, and he was despised by those retrograde elements. Musharraf was seen as a savior of pakistani stability because he kept those elements out of power. The Saudi family wrestles with that faction constantly.

If so much of the muslim world sees these retrograde populations as a danger, we should be able to dispense with a notion that american action on this point is trivial religious bigotry.

SteveMak 02-20-2017 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frugalkoenig (Post 193222)
...There is a focus on [terrorism] because events like the WTC bombing, 9/11, the Fort Hood shooting and the San Bernadino attack all involve actors claiming a specific motive for their acts...

Curious. More than 11,000 Americans die each year, on American soil, from firearm deaths (excluding suicide and peace officers acting in the line of duty), at the hands of fellow Americans, NOT due to terrorism, and there's very little focus on that compared to "The Terrorist Threat."

By comparison, if we take the the number of annual deaths and prorate them to a daily average, we get freakish statistics like: on an average 3 days, about the same number of Americans die on American soil, killed by other Americans using firearms, in NON-terrorist activity, as the number of Americans (about 100) who were killed by acts of terrorism across the entire planet over the past 10 years.

And yet, The Terrorists are a cause for fear, while fellow Americans with guns are not. Clearly, the actual risk of personal injury is not the determining factor in how much mind-share and fear each threat generates. Something else is afoot.

frugalkoenig 02-21-2017 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMak (Post 193242)
Quote:

There is a focus on [terrorism] because events like the WTC bombing, 9/11, the Fort Hood shooting and the San Bernadino attack all involve actors claiming a specific motive for their acts.
Curious. More than 11,000 Americans die each year, on American soil, from firearm deaths (excluding suicide and peace officers acting in the line of duty), at the hands of fellow Americans, NOT due to terrorism, and there's very little focus on that compared to "The Terrorist Threat."

Your numbers are somewhat outdated, and current numbers are lower, but simply counting current numbers misses the point of the observation. An array of criminal homicides will not share the specific motives of a caliphist movement with a specific goal of taking lives in an active co-belligerence with some of the world's more barbaric regimes. The IRA may have killed fewer people overall than badly designed traffic signals, but the loathsome quality of IRA goals made addressing that threat a matter of public focus.

Moreover, your sense that firearm violence receives little public focus in the US is not correct. I can give you greater detail on this if you like, but it has been an evergreen issue since the late 1960s.

Aside from the fact that Americans may enjoy an explicit constitutional right pertaining to firearms, as a matter of public policy it is not clear that reducing legal firearms ownership and possession leads to greater public safety. Our larger cities are notorious for a history of burdensome gun prohibitions and regulations, yet are some of the most dangerous places in the states.

On the other hand, the Canadian experience of crime involves much higher rates of sexual assault, battery and occupied home invasion, all crimes in which a reasonable certainty that a prospect of victim will be unable to employ a lethal defense is useful. Whether that calculation is the driving force behind those higher rates would require speculation.

Explaining the American and Canadian Crime Drop in the 1990’s

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMak (Post 193242)
By comparison, if we take the the number of annual deaths and prorate them to a daily average, we get freakish statistics like: on an average 3 days, about the same number of Americans die on American soil, killed by other Americans using firearms, in NON-terrorist activity, as the number of Americans (about 100) who were killed by acts of terrorism across the entire planet over the past 10 years.

The statistics are only freakish if you disregard the category error of positing general criminal activity as in all respects equivalent to an attempt to take down a couple of towers and kill tens of thousands of people in the process. (That the actual tally was only several thousand that day is not a tribute to caliphist kindness.)

Random individual firearm use is not a matter of concerted state prohibition and in fact represents an ample social good. On the other hand, there is an American consensus that caliphist terrorism does not represent a social good, and therefore is the focus of government policy discouraging it. One would expect that an activity that is actively discouraged might be less frequent than one that is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMak (Post 193242)
BAnd yet, The Terrorists are a cause for fear, while fellow Americans with guns are not. Clearly, the actual risk of personal injury is not the determining factor in how much mind-share and fear each threat generates. Something else is afoot.

That something other than a simple fear of personal injury is present is undisputed. There was once a time when violence at the hands of Indians was an overwhelming public safety concern. That threat having subsided, it is no longer a matter of public focus. On the other hand, caliphism has not subsided and in fact is a growing problem not just in the US, but Western Europe and Pakistan. It should not be a matter of mystery that people will address a growing, specific and current concern. Since the people most concerned about this are in fact themselves Muslims, the idea that addressing immigration from specific and problematic countries is the result of a religious or ethnic bigotry requires special pleading.

cuts_off_prius 02-21-2017 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDB (Post 192881)
Where does that 94% number come from?

I remember reading that report.

Probably this one: Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America

TL;DR
Quote:

GlobalResearch.Ca

Based on our review of the approximately 2,400 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil contained within the START database [1970 to 2012], we determined that approximately 60 were carried out by Muslims.

In other words, approximately 2.5% of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1970 and 2012 were carried out by Muslims.* This is a tiny proportion of all attacks.
I know it sounds odd, given what's said in the media. Who knows...

But there is a growing threat of violence in North America coming from a particular group of people with similar beliefs.

1/29/17 French Canadian right winger (big fan of alt-right, Le Pen, Trump) shoots and kills 6 and injures 19 worshipers.

North Carolina Tea Partiers prepare to ‘start killing the hell out of’ Muslims to stop Sharia law

Hate Group Numbers in U.S. Rose for 2nd Year in a Row, Report Says

FBI arrests man in Myrtle Beach allegedly planning attack 'in the spirit of Dylann Roof'

Tennessee Man Convicted Of Plot To Round Up Militia, Attack Muslim Community
Robert Doggart, 65, will be sentenced in May.


Not to mention anti-antisemitism also being on the rise, with an entire Jewish cemetery desecrated.

What did Muslims do? They raised $20,000 to help rebuild the Jewish cemetary.

I'm Muslim. I think the issue people have with Islam (and more often than not, these people have never met a Muslim in real life) has more to do with Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia. And Sharia? All practicing Muslims follow Sharia in their everyday lives, whether you like it or not. From weddings, funerals, to diet, that's all Sharia, like 95% of it. You know, just like how Jews follow Jewish law and traditions. What people get up in arms with is the crime and punishment aspect, which is a fraction of it. Even then it's highly debatable for Muslims to agree on something and there is some flexibility for modern realities. After all, homosexuality was decriminalized in the Ottoman Empire, the last legit Islamic caliphate, long before it was in Europe. You'd be hard pressed to find Muslims in the West to support Gulf state style laws, which borrows a lot from Saudi culture and Wahhabism. The overwhelming majority of Muslims live in Asia and you hardly hear about them, so there's that.

This is an excerpt from a note written by Hamza Yusuf, arguably the most influential Islamic scholar in the West. And I would say this is something rarely said by mainstream Muslim scholars here.

Quote:

A plague is upon us, and it has its vectors. Like the brain-eating amoebas that have struck the warm waters of the Southern states in America, a faith-eating plague has been spreading across the global Muslim community. This insidious disease has a source, and that source must be identified, so we can begin to inoculate our communities against it.

New versions of our ancient faith have sprung up and have infected the hearts and minds of countless young people across the globe. Imam Adel Al-Kalbani, who led prayers in the Haram of Mecca for several years, has publicly stated that these youth are the bitter harvest of teachings that have emanated from pulpits throughout the Arabian Peninsula, teachings that have permeated all corners of the world, teachings that focus on hatred, exclusivity, provincialism, and xenophobia. These teachings anathematize any Muslim who does not share their simple-minded, literalist, anti-metaphysical, primitive, and impoverished form of Islam, and they reject the immense body of Islamic scholarship from the luminaries of our tradition.
If you're interested, read the full note here: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...54210987871544

ChewChewTrain 02-21-2017 04:55 PM

Assuming the fact source is correct, which I doubt, it's STILL faulty logic. Just because American nationals carry out more terror attacks on American soil doesn't mean that the USA immigration screening should be relaxed.

That's like saying, "Gee. Why are you so upset about me putting a door ding on YOUR car, since your car already has so many door dings?"

cuts_off_prius 02-21-2017 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewChewTrain (Post 193285)
Assuming the fact source is correct, which I doubt, it's STILL faulty logic. Just because American nationals carry out more terror attacks on American soil doesn't mean that the USA immigration screening should be relaxed.

That's like saying, "Gee. Why are you so upset about me putting a door ding on YOUR car, since your car already has so many door dings?"

Never gave an opinion on the travel ban, but I agree with your logic and sentiment and no one hates terrorists more than Muslims, who are on the front lines fighting against them. However, the vetting process for refugees is pretty strict as it is. Process takes at the minimum 2 years and they go through the UN and such. On the other hand, I did hear of Syrians using fake aliases or something like that. That may have to be checked out and if that was the case a temporary freeze isn't the end of the world.

I don't really mind extra screening for people coming from war torn areas (which already happens? lol), but when reports sprang up that Muslims from countries not included in the ban were being questioned about their religious and political beliefs by border agents and the issue with green card holders being turned away, that's completely unacceptable behavior.

ChewChewTrain 02-21-2017 05:57 PM

Heck, I understand completely why Mexican nationals want to seek a better life for themselves or their families on American soil. I don't fault them. If not for my tremendous luck of being born in the USA (catchy words; would make a good rock song), I'd do the same!

But, regardless of how empathetic, it's STILL against our laws. We can't cherry pick the laws to ignore. Can I pick a law to violate with impunity?

The saying "All's fair in love and war" means when it comes down to your safety, your family's safety, and that of your fellow citizens, I don't care who feels insulted.

The "Trump Ban" is NOT a "ban". That was a liberal media interpretation. The "Trump Ban" is ONLY a 90-day pause to review the immigration standards. Wanting to lessen the chance of an attack on American citizens is a 90-day immigration pause unreasonable for a new administration to do?

frugalkoenig 02-22-2017 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuts_off_prius (Post 193284)
I remember reading that report.

Probably this one: Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America

That "report" sheds its credibility very quickly. It alleges Jewish terrorism in the US to be a far greater problem, then denies that the Boston Marathon bombing was an act of Islamic terrorism, then descends into a comparison to general crime in the states.

It is difficult to see this as anything but an apologetic or minimization of the history of the last two decades. That said, simply looking backward and making a straight line projection into the future is not a sound basis for prospect of policy. An ability to foresee threats before they take domestic US victims is desirable.

cuts_off_prius 02-22-2017 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frugalkoenig (Post 193293)
, then denies that the Boston Marathon bombing was an act of Islamic terrorism,

Do you not read or something?

Quote:

The START Global Terrorism Database spans from 1970 through 2012 (and will be updated from year-to-year), and – as of this writing – includes 104,000 terrorist incidents. As such, it is the most comprehensive open-source database open to the public.
Quote:

* The Boston marathon bombing was not included in this analysis, as START has not yet updated its database to include 2013 terrorist attacks.
I'm not defending the credibility of the report. I'm just posting the reference to where a previous poster mentioned the report and someone asked where it came from.

Draigflag 02-22-2017 11:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I was going to reference the Global Terrorism database. Despite a recent spike, for the last (almost) 50 years, very few terrorist attacks have been Islamic/Jihadi based at all in Europe. You're something like 9 times more likely to be killed by a Police officer than a Terrorist in the US.

C'mon people, don't let these Politicians play you like fools, educate yourself with facts and data, don't join the hate parade!

cuts_off_prius 02-22-2017 11:54 AM

And no one here is denying that there is terror committed by people who proclaim themselves to be Muslim. It is a problem that needs to be dealt with. However, we have an administration in charge of the US that willfully ignores right wing and other forms of terror to focus only on terror committed by these individuals who call themselves Muslims. When news came out about the Quebec mosque shooting, there was a Fox News headline that mentioned one of the people involved was of Moroccan origin. Trump pointed at that to justify his temporary travel ban on twitter. Trump supporters were joyful on twitter and facebook that their prejudices were confirmed. Then it turned out that the Moroccan man was actually the one who called it in and was a witness while the shooter was a lone white French Canadian guy. Fox News later corrected their headline. Trump's public response? Nothing. Utter silence. It didn't fit the narrative. Instead, he and his team makes up Islamic terror attacks. Bowling Green. Atlanta. Sweden.

Quote:

Donald Trump’s transition team made clear to officials at the Department of Homeland Security after the election that it wants to reorient programs meant to counter violent extremism so that they focus almost exclusively on the threat posed by radical Islamic terrorism rather than other forms of extremism.
source

Why ignore right wing terror, which is statistically more likely to happen? THAT is dangerous. Period. We need to fight against all forms of terror and violence.

frugalkoenig 02-22-2017 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuts_off_prius (Post 193308)
Do you not read or something?

I'll take "or something" if that means I read the report including the part to which I alluded.

Quote:

While the Boston marathon bombings were horrific, a top terrorism expert says that the Boston attack was more like Columbine than 9/11, and that the bombers are “murderers not terrorists”. The overwhelming majority of mass shootings were by non-Muslims. (This is true in Europe, as well as in the U.S.)
The idea that these brothers, animated by a problematic ideology, aren't terrorists because they are murderers does not bear scrutiny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuts_off_prius (Post 193308)
I'm not defending the credibility of the report. I'm just posting the reference to where a previous poster mentioned the report and someone asked where it came from.

I didn't think you were defending the credibility of that report, but noting the problem with its reasoning and conclusions.

cuts_off_prius 02-22-2017 12:15 PM

^I missed that part, my bad. Speaking as a Muslim myself, that sounds insane. Those brothers were scumbag terrorists and the younger one was asking for mercy "for the sake of Allah." What a load of... I have zero sympathy for them using religion as a justification for their horrendous act and they deserve the worst that comes to them.

ChewChewTrain 02-22-2017 12:16 PM

I'm enjoying this conversation, everyone, and, regardless of our different opinions, I'm the type that holds no ill feelings or grudges towards anyone...

UNLESS you're my two imbecilic, idiot, treacherous, conniving, heartless sisters. I left out STUPID!

frugalkoenig 02-22-2017 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draigflag (Post 193309)
I was going to reference the Global Terrorism database. Despite a recent spike, for the last (almost) 50 years, very few terrorist attacks have been Islamic/Jihadi based at all in Europe. You're something like 9 times more likely to be killed by a Police officer than a Terrorist in the US.

C'mon people, don't let these Politicians play you like fools, educate yourself with facts and data, don't join the hate parade!

Have you considered that ignoring the recent spike may not be reasonable?

For the decade preceding December 7, 1941, the japanese had probably killed fewer americans than smoking and malnutrition. That doesn't make ignoring the problem with Japan in 1942 reasonable. For the two decades prior to 1981 far more people died from the complications associated with obesity than died from HIV/AIDS. That isn't an excellent excuse for regarding HIV/AIDS as no particular problem in 1995.

frugalkoenig 02-22-2017 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuts_off_prius (Post 193314)
^I missed that part, my bad. Speaking as a Muslim myself, that sounds insane. Those brothers were scumbag terrorists and the younger one was asking for mercy "for the sake of Allah." Load a load of... I have zero sympathy for them using religion as a justification for their horrendous act and they deserve the worst that comes to them.

Excellent. I did not realize you were a Muslim.

You will understand then that in part because of a lack of hierarchy and structure, and a direct relationship with the book unmediated by another authority, you can condemn their acts, but you (and I) have very little authority in condemning them as un-Islamic.

This is the challenge faced by my Pakistani and Saudi friends. They have a faith and are interested in shaping their societies to work with the wider and functional world, but they face a very substantial opposition from within their own countries. The challenge for these people is to forge a future in which it is widely accepted amongst Muslim populations that one need not be retrograde or caliphist in order to be a faithful adherent. It would also be nice if they could accomplish this without being blown up, crucified or beheaded.

Some of my American friends contend that this is impossible given the body of text from which Muslims draw. I do not share that contention.

Draigflag 02-22-2017 01:17 PM

I still think US citizens armed with firearms are a bigger threat, even though that threat itself is probably very minor. Here's a tiny list of a few reported incidents involving firearms from the last 72 hours on US soil.

February 22, 2017 Kansas Leawood
February 22, 2017 Texas Marion (county)
February 22, 2017 Missouri Kansas City
February 22, 2017 South Carolina Gray Court
February 22, 2017 Louisiana Lafayette
February 22, 2017 Louisiana Lafayette
February 22, 2017 Florida Fort Myers
February 22, 2017 Texas Houston
February 22, 2017 Texas Conroe
February 22, 2017 Texas Arlington
February 22, 2017 Louisiana Marrero
February 22, 2017 Louisiana Baton Rouge
February 22, 2017 California Coachella
February 22, 2017 California Bakersfield
February 22, 2017 Minnesota Saint Paul
February 22, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 22, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 22, 2017 Tennessee Gallatin
February 22, 2017 Texas Houston
February 21, 2017 Colorado Colorado Springs
February 21, 2017 New York Utica
February 21, 2017 Colorado Colorado Springs
February 21, 2017 Colorado Denver
February 21, 2017 New Jersey Trenton
February 21, 2017 New York Buffalo
February 21, 2017 Pennsylvania Pittsburgh
February 21, 2017 Ohio Cleveland
February 21, 2017 Nevada Las Vegas
February 21, 2017 Texas Houston
February 21, 2017 Nebraska Valley
February 21, 2017 Wisconsin Racine
February 21, 2017 Ohio Columbus
February 21, 2017 Oregon Beaverton
February 21, 2017 Iowa Mount Pleasant (Mt Pleasant)
February 21, 2017 New Jersey Atlantic City
February 21, 2017 North Carolina Garner
February 21, 2017 Ohio Springfield
February 21, 2017 Maryland Baltimore
February 21, 2017 Maryland Baltimore
February 21, 2017 Kentucky Oak Grove
February 21, 2017 North Carolina Salisbury
February 21, 2017 North Carolina Greensboro
February 21, 2017 Delaware Wilmington
February 21, 2017 North Carolina Gastonia
February 21, 2017 Ohio Massillon
February 21, 2017 Illinois Springfield
February 21, 2017 Kentucky Paducah
February 21, 2017 Illinois Belleville
February 21, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 21, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 21, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 21, 2017 Florida Pensacola
February 21, 2017 Florida Orlando
February 21, 2017 Florida Orlando
February 21, 2017 Florida Sarasota
February 21, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 21, 2017 Tennessee Chattanooga (East Ridge)
February 21, 2017 Tennessee Chattanooga
February 21, 2017 Kentucky Betsy Layne
February 21, 2017 Illinois Chicago (Englewood)
February 21, 2017 South Carolina North Charleston
February 21, 2017 Alabama Mobile
February 21, 2017 Texas Houston
February 21, 2017 California San Diego
February 21, 2017 Alabama Baldwin (county)
February 21, 2017 Texas Abilene
February 21, 2017 Florida West Palm Beach
February 21, 2017 South Carolina Anderson
February 21, 2017 South Carolina Easley
February 21, 2017 Maine Oakland
February 21, 2017 Missouri Saint Louis
February 21, 2017 Mississippi Natchez
February 21, 2017 Mississippi Toomsuba
February 21, 2017 Utah Ogden
February 21, 2017 New Hampshire Manchester
February 21, 2017 Utah Roy
February 21, 2017 Louisiana Hammond
February 21, 2017 Florida Orlando
February 21, 2017 Alabama Birmingham
February 21, 2017 Louisiana New Orleans
February 21, 2017 Louisiana New Orleans
February 21, 2017 Ohio Toledo
February 21, 2017 Louisiana Baton Rouge
February 21, 2017 Massachusetts New Bedford
February 21, 2017 California Covina
February 21, 2017 California San Bernardino
February 21, 2017 Louisiana Metairie
February 21, 2017 California Indio
February 21, 2017 Massachusetts Worcester
February 21, 2017 Pennsylvania Mc Kees Rocks (Mckees Rocks)
February 21, 2017 Massachusetts Worcester
February 21, 2017 Massachusetts Boston
February 21, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 21, 2017 Illinois Chicago (Roseland)
February 21, 2017 Texas Tatum
February 21, 2017 Texas Del Valle
February 21, 2017 Texas Killeen
February 21, 2017 Texas Laredo
February 21, 2017 Louisiana Shreveport
February 21, 2017 Texas Dallas
February 21, 2017 Texas Houston
February 21, 2017 Texas Houston
February 21, 2017 Arkansas Texarkana
February 21, 2017 Tennessee Memphis
February 21, 2017 Ohio Dayton
February 21, 2017 Nebraska Mc Cook (Mccook)
February 21, 2017 Nevada Las Vegas
February 21, 2017 Pennsylvania Harrisburg
February 21, 2017 Indiana Bloomington
February 21, 2017 Tennessee Chattanooga
February 21, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 21, 2017 Nebraska Lincoln
February 21, 2017 Indiana Indianapolis
February 21, 2017 Louisiana Sibley
February 21, 2017 Ohio Akron
February 20, 2017 North Carolina Hickory
February 20, 2017 Washington Spokane
February 20, 2017 New York Buffalo
February 20, 2017 California Orosi
February 20, 2017 Texas Houston
February 20, 2017 Maryland Baltimore
February 20, 2017 California Oakland
February 20, 2017 California Antioch
February 20, 2017 Ohio Cleveland
February 20, 2017 Texas Fort Worth
February 20, 2017 Mississippi Byhalia
February 20, 2017 Texas Bastrop
February 20, 2017 Texas Galveston
February 20, 2017 Arizona Phoenix
February 20, 2017 Arizona Tucson
February 20, 2017 Texas Grand Prairie
February 20, 2017 Kentucky Murray
February 20, 2017 Missouri Saint Louis
February 20, 2017 Tennessee Mcdonald
February 20, 2017 Tennessee Memphis
February 20, 2017 Wisconsin Madison
February 20, 2017 Rhode Island Central Falls
February 20, 2017 Georgia Thomasville
February 20, 2017 Wisconsin Madison (Fitchburg)
February 20, 2017 Ohio Akron
February 20, 2017 Florida Naples
February 20, 2017 Florida Fort Myers
February 20, 2017 North Carolina Sanford
February 20, 2017 Maryland Baltimore
February 20, 2017 Florida Miami
February 20, 2017 Florida Ocala
February 20, 2017 Virginia Portsmouth
February 20, 2017 Maryland Baltimore
February 20, 2017 Maryland Odenton
February 20, 2017 Florida Sarasota
February 20, 2017 Florida Brooksville
February 20, 2017 Delaware Wilmington
February 20, 2017 Pennsylvania Philadelphia
February 20, 2017 Colorado Brighton
February 20, 2017 North Carolina Roxboro
February 20, 2017 North Carolina Gastonia
February 20, 2017 North Carolina Raleigh
February 20, 2017 Texas Paris
February 20, 2017 District of Columbia Washington
February 20, 2017 Ohio Cincinnati
February 20, 2017 North Carolina Burlington
February 20, 2017 Alabama Birmingham
February 20, 2017 North Carolina Salisbury
February 20, 2017 South Carolina Greenville
February 20, 2017 Indiana Indianapolis
February 20, 2017 Pennsylvania Philadelphia
February 20, 2017 Missouri Saint Joseph
February 20, 2017 Virginia Hampton
February 20, 2017 New York Brooklyn
February 20, 2017 Florida Miami
February 20, 2017 Indiana Rising Sun
February 20, 2017 Florida Orlando
February 20, 2017 Virginia Chesterfield
February 20, 2017 Tennessee Lebanon
February 20, 2017 Michigan Detroit
February 20, 2017 Virginia Roanoke
February 20, 2017 Arkansas Benton
February 20, 2017 Florida Leesburg
February 20, 2017 New York New York (Manhattan)
February 20, 2017 Virginia Newport News
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Virginia Richmond
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Georgia Jonesboro
February 20, 2017 Georgia Ellenwood
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 California Whittier
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Tennessee Martin
February 20, 2017 Tennessee Camden
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago (Englewood)
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 20, 2017 Florida Miami Gardens
February 20, 2017 California Pomona
February 20, 2017 California Fresno
February 20, 2017 California Bakersfield
February 20, 2017 Oklahoma Norman
February 20, 2017 Mississippi Louisville
February 20, 2017 South Carolina Columbia
February 20, 2017 Texas Abilene
February 20, 2017 California Riverside
February 20, 2017 Florida Bradenton
February 20, 2017 Michigan Detroit
February 20, 2017 Louisiana New Orleans
February 20, 2017 Missouri Kansas City (Raytown)
February 20, 2017 South Carolina Summerville
February 20, 2017 Mississippi Hattiesburg
February 20, 2017 Mississippi Canton
February 20, 2017 Louisiana New Orleans
February 20, 2017 Indiana Evansville
February 20, 2017 Florida Fort Myers
February 20, 2017 Georgia Atlanta
February 20, 2017 Alabama Birmingham
February 20, 2017 Texas Copperas Cove
February 20, 2017 New Hampshire Portsmouth
February 20, 2017 Illinois Rockford
February 20, 2017 Iowa Mount Pleasant
February 20, 2017 South Carolina Rock Hill
February 20, 2017 South Carolina Hilton Head Island
February 20, 2017 Mississippi Jackson
February 20, 2017 New York Brockport
February 20, 2017 Michigan Detroit
February 20, 2017 Michigan Detroit
February 20, 2017 Michigan Detroit
February 20, 2017 Louisiana New Orleans
February 20, 2017 Louisiana Shreveport
February 20, 2017 Texas San Antonio
February 20, 2017 Indiana Indianapolis
February 20, 2017 Indiana Brownsburg
February 20, 2017 Texas Lubbock
February 20, 2017 New Hampshire Farmington
February 20, 2017 Pennsylvania Wilkes Barre
February 20, 2017 Connecticut Bridgeport
February 20, 2017 Ohio Cleveland
February 20, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 20, 2017 Mississippi Biloxi
February 20, 2017 Wisconsin Green Bay
February 20, 2017 Georgia Atlanta
February 20, 2017 New York Staten Island
February 20, 2017 Nebraska Lincoln
February 20, 2017 Pennsylvania Harrisburg
February 20, 2017 Louisiana New Orleans
February 20, 2017 Texas Dallas
February 20, 2017 Oregon Portland
February 20, 2017 Kansas Wichita
February 20, 2017 Oregon Wolf Creek
February 19, 2017 Ohio Kent
February 19, 2017 Alabama Auburn
February 19, 2017 California Castroville
February 19, 2017 Oregon Central Point
February 19, 2017 California Merced
February 19, 2017 California Merced
February 19, 2017 Wisconsin Milwaukee
February 19, 2017 Montana Dillon
February 19, 2017 District of Columbia Washington
February 19, 2017 New York Hilton
February 19, 2017 Virginia Newport News
February 19, 2017 North Carolina Thurmond
February 19, 2017 California Mc Farland (Mcfarland)
February 19, 2017 California San Ysidro
February 19, 2017 Virginia Richmond
February 19, 2017 Texas Fort Worth
February 19, 2017 South Carolina North Charleston
February 19, 2017 Texas Lubbock
February 19, 2017 Maryland Aberdeen
February 19, 2017 New York Tonawanda
February 19, 2017 Michigan Traverse City
February 19, 2017 West Virginia Charleston
February 19, 2017 Pennsylvania Clairton
February 19, 2017 West Virginia Charleston
February 19, 2017 Texas Humble
February 19, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 19, 2017 Ohio Salem
February 19, 2017 Illinois Chicago (Englewood)
February 19, 2017 Texas Houston
February 19, 2017 North Carolina Salisbury
February 19, 2017 Illinois Chicago
February 19, 2017 Texas Houston
February 19, 2017 Louisiana New Orleans
February 19, 2017 Pennsylvania Philadelphia
February 19, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 19, 2017 Ohio Cleveland
February 19, 2017 Maryland Baltimore
February 19, 2017 Florida Miami
February 19, 2017 North Carolina Charlotte
February 19, 2017 Alabama Birmingham
February 19, 2017 South Carolina Prosperity
February 19, 2017 North Carolina Charlotte
February 19, 2017 Nebraska Omaha
February 19, 2017 Wisconsin Racine
February 19, 2017 Wisconsin Racine
February 19, 2017 Ohio Dayton
February 19, 2017 Texas Humble
February 19, 2017 Washington Seattle
February 19, 2017 New Jersey Jersey City
February 19, 2017 New Jersey Jersey City
February 19, 2017 North Carolina Charlotte
February 19, 2017 Kentucky Louisville
February 19, 2017 Indiana Evansville
February 19, 2017 Tennessee Memphis
February 19, 2017 Tennessee Memphis
February 19, 2017 California Los Angeles
February 19, 2017 Kentucky Marshall (county)
February 19, 2017 California Oakland
February 19, 2017 California San Jose
February 19, 2017 Pennsylvania Manheim
February 19, 2017 Pennsylvania Pittsburgh
February 19, 2017 West Virginia Morgantown
February 19, 2017 New Jersey Highland Park
February 19, 2017 New Jersey Trenton
February 19, 2017 Florida Gainesville
February 19, 2017 South Carolina Spartanburg
February 19, 2017 Georgia Savannah
February 19, 2017 Tennessee Memphis
February 19, 2017 Florida Orlando
February 19, 2017 Florida Pembroke Pines
February 19, 2017 New Jersey Atlantic City
February 19, 2017 New York Syracuse
February 19, 2017 New Jersey Pleasantville
February 19, 2017 Colorado Denver
February 19, 2017 California Visalia
February 19, 2017 Arkansas Bull Shoals
February 19, 2017 Idaho Preston
February 19, 2017 Maryland Baltimore
February 19, 2017 Florida Key West
February 19, 2017 Virginia Norfolk
February 19, 2017 Virginia Warrenton
February 19, 2017 Virginia Newport News
February 19, 2017 Virginia Richmond
February 19, 2017 Virginia Richmond
February 19, 2017 New York Brooklyn
February 19, 2017 Iowa Ames
February 19, 2017 Tennessee Franklin
February 19, 2017 Virginia Nellysford (Wintergreen)
February 19, 2017 Florida Tampa
February 19, 2017 Florida Tampa
February 19, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 19, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 19, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 19, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 19, 2017 Kentucky Erlanger
February 19, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 19, 2017 Florida Jacksonville
February 19, 2017 Ohio Cincinnati

Since I posted this, the list has already grown. If this worries you less than the threat of Islamic based terror, I don't know what to think really...

frugalkoenig 02-22-2017 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draigflag (Post 193320)
I still think US citizens armed with firearms are a bigger threat, even though that threat itself is probably very minor. Here's a tiny list of a few reported incidents involving firearms from the last 72 hours on US soil.

***

Since I posted this, the list has already grown. If this worries you less than the threat of Islamic based terror, I don't know what to think really...

It may help you to know what to think if you would refrain from the category error implicit in your argument. "Reported incidents involving firearms" isn't a growing political movement with a commitment to terrorism and a particular animosity for the US.

As to american firearm policy, note that many of the places you report make legal firearm possession so difficult that they are effectively banned by law.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.