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Old 01-27-2023, 04:57 AM   #1
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Ev's cost more

per mile than ICE.

https://autos.yahoo.com/driving-100-...000000887.html
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Old 01-27-2023, 06:12 AM   #2
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Maybe at US gas prices.

According to Forbes: Public charging and pump prices at Nov 2022.
EV. Assuming a range of about 200 miles on a full charge, this works out to between 6.3 pence and 12 pence per mile.
ICE. Assuming a full tank of petrol will take you 500 miles, this works out to between 13 pence and 21 pence per mile.

https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/ca...-ev-or-an-ice/
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Old 01-27-2023, 06:17 AM   #3
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Have to factor in lower maintenance and road tax too. If you use public chargers then yea, the costs are similar to petrol/diesel, charging from home will be a lot cheaper for those who can. Even if did coat more, it's a small increase for a car that's nicer to drive and in most cases, more convenient (pre heating cabin from your phone, refueling at home every night etc). Looking forward to my Mum's arriving in the next few weeks.
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Old 01-27-2023, 11:08 AM   #4
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Eh, the cheaper than home charging happened at the end of the year. For about a year before that, home charging EVs were cheaper. This is because gas prices hit a low point then. The national gas price average has been climbing since the ICE car was cheaper, and their costs will be higher than the EV charging at home now.


I have questions about the study. I get the dead head charges being higher for the commercial charging than gas. Part of it has to do with availability difference between the two; that should improve for the chargers over time. I do wonder how they factor the wait time into a cost, and does it consider that the driver can be running an errand during that time?

How did they calculate the charger cost? Was it spread out over 12,000 miles of one year, or the the expected service life. If charger costs for the public ones included, where are the costs of the gasoline dispensing equipment?
https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2023-01...4%20Update.pdf
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Old 01-28-2023, 12:06 AM   #5
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Not your average vehicle of course, I like to compare extremes. The energy cost of driving a Hummer EV 10,000 miles using public chargers in the UK is just under $8000. That thing is an offence to EVs, never should have been invented, the resources wasted should have been used in batteries for 4-5 other smaller EVs, not just one that will ferry a celeb around designer retail outlets in downtown LA....
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Old 01-28-2023, 09:56 PM   #6
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Can't argue with any of that. When I was considering EV it was to find among the best economy to minimize cpm.
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Old 01-30-2023, 05:26 AM   #7
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To add to this conversation, I was watching a show where they said that you can build around 9 '23 Toyota Prius(es) if you could take the batteries from one Tesla Model 3. The new Prius is rated at 4.1L/100km and I was wondering since a lot of people still drive on the highway, would it be better for the environment to buy that car over a Tesla. My Chevy Volt has an indicated 4.6Le/100km lifetime; which means that if I had a new Prius I would be using less energy since I drive on the highway a bit more than the city. I hope the new Prius will sell well, but maybe most people will just skip it and go to electric since they are more efficient overall (and a lot more expensive). Most Tesla costumers were previously BMW and Prius owners, so maybe it's too little too late to have a very efficient great looking Prius.

The Hummer EV has three times as many batteries as a 2nd Gen. Nissan Leaf. Fortunately there are a lot more Nissans being sold than Hummers. GM is struggling to make EVs and the fallout between them and LG made the situation a lot worse.
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Old 01-30-2023, 10:02 AM   #8
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It's the purchase cost that has fallen to a level that's more appealing to the general population. Let's use the Honda Civic as a benchmark, as a mid sized family hatchback, as it's often used for comparisons. The latest model (hybrid) starts at 30,495 for the base model in the UK. The all electric MG4, similar size, power output, 0-60 time starts at 26995.

That's a 13% premium for a car that relies solely on petrol, and only has a 3 year warranty Vs 7 on the MG. My electricity prices have quadrupled recently, but even then, at 40p per KWH, it would cost me around 24 to charge, and I'd be getting at least 240 miles. I'd have to get 64 MPG in the Civic to match that, and that's with fuel prices that have fallen significantly over the last couple of months. I know where my money would go if I was looking for a new car.
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Old 01-30-2023, 11:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2spd View Post
To add to this conversation, I was watching a show where they said that you can build around 9 '23 Toyota Prius(es) if you could take the batteries from one Tesla Model 3. The new Prius is rated at 4.1L/100km and I was wondering since a lot of people still drive on the highway, would it be better for the environment to buy that car over a Tesla. My Chevy Volt has an indicated 4.6Le/100km lifetime; which means that if I had a new Prius I would be using less energy since I drive on the highway a bit more than the city. I hope the new Prius will sell well, but maybe most people will just skip it and go to electric since they are more efficient overall (and a lot more expensive). Most Tesla costumers were previously BMW and Prius owners, so maybe it's too little too late to have a very efficient great looking Prius.

The Hummer EV has three times as many batteries as a 2nd Gen. Nissan Leaf. Fortunately there are a lot more Nissans being sold than Hummers. GM is struggling to make EVs and the fallout between them and LG made the situation a lot worse.
That is Toyota argument. More hybrids means better emission reduction than BEVs with the battery supply. There is just a few issues with it.

1- The best reduction with limited battery supply would be to build mild diesel hybrids, not full gasoline hybrids.

2- The limitation on the battery supply is a temporary thing. New mines and factories are being built, and car companies are moving away from the more limited and problematic minerals. Toyota underestimated EV demand, and didn't secure enough battery supply for the EVs they do make.

3- The emissions of plug ins can be the same or better than even Prius level efficient hybrids. Depends on how the electricity is made. Several areas of the US have plug ins emitting less CO2 than a 80mpg gas car. While the Prius is more efficient than your Volt, the Volt could be resulting in less carbon emissions.

The Hummer EV price tag is six figures. Dumb that it is being made, but few will be sold. PHEVs would be a better use of batteries, but their problem is in ensuring people plug them in, as Europe learned.
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Old 01-30-2023, 01:12 PM   #10
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The problem with PHEVs in Europe was companies were given a tax break for buying them, so they purchased hundreds and ran them as ordinary ICE vehicles. The man in the street buying a PHEV ran it as it was intended to be run.
Regarding the new Hybrid Civic with electric traction, 64 mpg should be achievable if the Jazz with a similar drive train is anything to go by.
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