EPA accuses Fiat Chrysler of using software to allow excess pollution in diesels - Page 3 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 01-17-2017, 12:08 AM   #21
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I think it was you that hijacked the thread (as usual) maybe you're too thick to realise, go back a page buddy...

I don't have to post pictures of my car either, but I want to, it's awesome and I love it. Anyway, if you could answer my question above, that would be great.
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Old 01-17-2017, 07:28 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Draigflag View Post
Sadly, it's more about the "cheating" than the amount of pollution, which in fairness is what it SHOULD be about. As I've said many a time before, after real world testing, VW group cars were better than almost every other car maker out there.
And as I have said repeatedly, the cheating is about more than the extra pollution. By doing so, VW defrauded customers and had an unfair advantage over the competition.

You wonder why the US doesn't have more diesel options? Well, when Honda and Mazda couldn't get a diesel to pass without SCR, like VW supposedly did, they gave up their diesel plans for North America.

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Originally Posted by SteveMak View Post
Shortly after Dieselgate exploded onto the scene in September 2015, the U.K. government performed their own emissions tests under real-world conditions, and they discovered that all diesels tested, regardless of brand or model, exceeded lab-legal emission limits when operating in the real world. They then tested gasoline (petrol) vehicles and discovered that almost all vehicles did the same, regardless of brand or model.
There are studies on this topic from before dieselgate. It was one such study that caught VW in the US.

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The reality is that virtually all vehicles on the road are designed to meet the legal requirements, as determined by a specific in-lab-only test, while generating far more pollution out of the lab. In the USA, that's unimportant. So long as you follow the rules (don't break the law by employing the legal definition of a "cheat device"), then all is well.
Cars that pass the lab tests, and keep the emission controls operating at all times will have less emissions than one that turns the controls off when the ECU determines the car isn't being tested.

The study that caught VW also tested a BMW diesel SUV. Over the test routes, it didn't emit more than what was considered acceptable for real road use, or at least the scientists running the study didn't feel the need to run the car through the EPA test cycles in the lab like they did the VWs to determine what was going on.

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So VAG (the Volkswagen Audi Group) gets persecuted and raked over the coals, like a witch hunt, while a blind eye is turned to virtually everyone else, and business goes on as usual.

What's worse, at least in North America, is that now authorities are scrutinizing all diesels applying for US certification (Canada just follows the US). For example, the 2017 Mercedes GLC will not offer a diesel option in North America because it failed the certification process. Meanwhile, no such scrutiny is being applied to gasoline (petrol) vehicles.

It's FUBAR.
Mercedes cancelling diesels for NA is fall out from VW cheating on multiple models over a decade. If VW hadn't cheated, the EPA wouldn't have felt the need for this extra scrutiny, then Mercedes would still be selling diesels here and FCA wouldn't be facing fines for not completing the paper work.

Hyundai would disagree with you on petrols getting a blind eye.

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Originally Posted by BlueRover View Post
Rover customers are much more fussy and expect more from their cars than value added brands. Rover will be supplying new diesel engines to Ford in North America so somebody must be happy.
It's more the other way around. Rover started using Ford diesels when Ford still owned them, and continued with that arrangement after the split.


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Originally Posted by SteveMak View Post
Although some people hold this opinion, I know of no data that supports it or quantifies to what extent it might be true.

It is also reported anecdotally that Tesla owners are so into owning a Tesla that they overlook things that would be considered defects in an economy car, such ar poorly fitting body panels. Again, I know of no data that supports this belief or quantifies to what extent it might be true.
Tesla owners don't overlook it. Tesla's prompt and professional handling of any problems generates enough goodwill to overcome the annoyance the problem caused.


Now, to the OP. It sounds like FCA isn't cheating, but they didn't disclose an operation mode with the paperwork. If this holds out to be the case, there will be a fine, and everybody moves on.
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Old 01-17-2017, 08:24 AM   #23
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Re the Rover Diesel. Range Rover has developed new engines on their own finally and the new 237 HP Ingenuin Diesel will be used supposedly in the new F150 to compete with Ram's small Diesel.

They still use Ford engines as in my car but with small in house changes.
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:24 AM   #24
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More bad news for the investor and the car market.
Fiat -Chrysler shares have fallen over 12% on the U.S. stock market because of this. Sales have been down but this seemed to cause a sell off.

And because "he who can't be named" ( no politics LOL) has hinted that German cars will hit with a 35% import duty, the shares of VW, BMW, and Daimler have fallen as well up to 2.2%
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:41 AM   #25
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Re the Rover Diesel. Range Rover has developed new engines on their own finally and the new 237 HP Ingenuin Diesel will be used supposedly in the new F150 to compete with Ram's small Diesel.

They still use Ford engines as in my car but with small in house changes.
"Ford is light on specifics, although the company does claim that the engine was “designed, engineered, and tested in-house.” (We previously had speculated that Ford might opt for a version of the 3.0-liter Lion turbo-diesel V-6 it jointly developed with PSA Peugeot Citroën years ago, which is currently used in some Range Rovers.)" - 2018 Ford F-150 Revealed with Diesel Power – News – Car and Driver

Sounds like Ford has cut the cord for the F150 diesel. Probably easier to design a new engine for US emission regs than adapting an European design. GM's kept US laws in mind while designing the 1.6L for the Cruze and Equinox.
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:48 PM   #26
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Don't mention the link with Peugeot/Citroen to BlueRover, he's spent most of this topic unjustifiably bashing French cars haha.
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