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Old 05-15-2008, 09:57 AM   #1
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Question Conspiracy Theories--how does the world realy work?

This post is in response to the "GM sales in the toilet" thread.
In that thread there is casual back and forth banter about conspiracy theories. I find it interesting, but I'm always curious where people are getting their information--how they can feel they know how the world works. There are many conspiracy theories I'm interested in, but few I can be bothered to investigate or just don't think there's anything behind them. Two I'm interested in. One is the notion that 9/11 was an inside job. The other is this notion that global warming is not caused by human activity, and that it's all just a bunch of hoopla to give another reason to tax people. The only conspiracy theory I believe in with a reasonable level of conviction is that 9/11 was an inside job. I believe this solely based on the physical evidence and discrepancies between what we were told and what the evidence suggests, NOT based on all the impossibilities that such a notion raises because the implications of it are too hard to wrap one's head around.

The global warming conspiracy I just don't follow. If anything, the government has lost tax money because of this theory because they give tax breaks on Hybrid vehicles. I've seen videos and heard arguments against the popular view on Global Warming, but I don't find it all that compelling. What do other people think? There seems to be worldwide scientific consensus, and yet there is a large faction of people that feel VERY adamant that it is not based in sound science--why? Is there anything to their arguments? Be curious to see what people think on these boards.

The third conspiracy, is this one regarding oil companies. Again, I'm not convinced. Why was gas 89 cents a gallon in 1990? Why did it skyrocket so suddenly? Wouldn't oil companies want to employ a slow and gradual increase in prices rather this kind of shock method? By and large, I feel conspiracy theories tend to be true when they are in the realm of politics (9/11, JFK, sinkning of the Maine etc) but Global Warming as not a human caused problem, or oil company conspiracies I find the evidence less compelling.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:56 AM   #2
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I am just going to coment on this as things I have heard. this is not necessarily my opinion but I do agree with some of the info.

9-11 = Won't touch with a 20ft pole

global warming = the earth seems to go through cycles where it is warmer or cooler which is true because of iceages. the "normal wether" that we are used to may just be part of this cycle that the earth goes through. the fact that the earth has never been this hot before is a little hard for me to believe. I am not sure exactly where (iceland or greenland) the glaciers had melted back farther than ever before but it exposed a cave where they found cave man tools (I heard that one but from a reliable source). bad weather because of the excess heat, there is a storm on mars that has been going on for centuries that is about the size of the US or so. it is much colder on mars than earth.

oil companies = over in kuwait or just the middle east in general, they used to sell their oil cheap (price per barrel). this is one of if not their only resource for export. the fact that the demand is so high means that they can gouge the prices as much as they want to and people will still pay for it. the oil companies have a tendancy to simply pass that on to us. if all I had to sell was one thing and I had a limited amount of it and people would buy it regardless of the price, it would be stupid to sell it cheap.


I am sure that people will blow holes in all of what I said and that is OK because I am just sharing things I have heard. take it for what its worth. and remember....

you get what you pay for and this was free.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:03 AM   #3
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Greed

What you just said is called greed. For thousands of years it's been in the Bible. "Love of money is the root of all evil." We're at "war" with unseen combatants ("terrorists" we cannot identify personally, they even let one of the "suspected" 9/11 participants free lately - see that?) and this causes gas to go higher. Exxon (E$$on) was "disappointed" with their 10.9 BILLION dollar profit last quarter. Gas is high due to greed, plain & simple.

Others see the US lifestyle, want it, and have a lever they can use - jacking oil. When a SUGAR refinery here in the US had an explosion, gas went up because the headlines read "Explosion at refinery kills six." Greed, pure & simple. Lots of people in on it, so it IS a conspiracy - they conspire to keep prices higher, but it is easily seen for what it is.

Those of us here are trying to make a difference in our own lives, and maybe affect others around us. Enough of us do this, we stop driving empty SUVs with 4 DVD players on all the time, life goes on. No one stands up - we end up more of a mess, with others controlling our actions.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:14 AM   #4
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interesting thread.

let me continue it by saying this...

to make a fair assessment, one needs to sudy each side of a particular view. many on the far right or left are dogmatic such that they do not give this courtesy or allow their own judgement to be clouded by political or other affiliation.

"site your source" is WAY over-used. what source? how reliable is it? has the source used another source of a source of a source?

take a simple illustration...

my personal experience has taught me that to lose weight, one must exercise and not as importantly eat right. I DO NOT CARE what any source, drug company, study, or any such propaganda says how to do so.

it is a fact, the body must move to burn calories and stay fit. proper diet assists this, PERIOD!!!

there ya go.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:49 AM   #5
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I agree with the seeing every side of the story. I personally try to keep an open mind and try to understand that there are more ways to see something than my side. I also agree that you have to go on your own experiences.

the weight loss example is a good one. the magic pill that will make you lose weight. it is true and it does work but you constantly have diarrea (misspelled) so are you going to continue to take that pill? NO. does it work? yes because a group of people used the pill until they were so dehydrated that they couldn't stand it any more and the study was probably ended. (just an example).

my opionion is just that "an opinion" and most peoples "sources sited" are just other peoples opinions as well.

don't take anything I have written on this thread as fact because unless you know it as fact than it is just opinion.

always good to reitterate that one, thanks bowtie guy
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEF View Post
most peoples "sources sited" are just other peoples opinions as well.
well said! in fact, assuming a reliable source did unbiased research, who's to say what is left unreported? what about interpretation?

the fact is statistics can be manipulated, even in a legit study. for those that are new(said this before):

"flying is safer than driving" is based on % of deaths. really genius? of course this is true...there are more cars in a more conjested space. answer this: would you rather be in a plane or car crash?

on a lighter note...

my father-in-law was in the military at the time of the JFK assasination. stay w/ me, it's not what you think! anyway, HE says that immediately following this event, the best facial and brain surgeons in the world were dispatched w/ the prez to a remote island. nurses, assisting doctors, and military/secret servicemen accompanied them.

it was a no fly zone with special instructions: no one in, no one out! can anyone confirm or deny this? i can't!
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:25 PM   #7
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I just knew I was going to get ragged hard for posting on this one and am suprised it hasn't happened yet.

bowtie guy, good to see someone else that sees things many ways and not just one. like you said, facts can be manipulated, phrases out of context, and details left out. we live in a world where the most important opinion is our own and there are some people that will stop at nothing to prove their opinion is fact.

and I did hear that they had the best brains surgons working on JFK and that he was brain dead for a while before they pronounced him dead/pulled the plug or whatever. (can't confirm that one as fact either though)
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:22 PM   #8
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Conspiracy theories are always intriguing. However, it's almost impossible to get people to conspire to good, let alone bad.

As for empty SUV's and the rest of the world? If other countries had societies that allowed for such growth, they would be aspiring to that. And they are aspiring to that. Everyone wants something better for their family. Something comfortable.

Money isn't always greed. It's freedom.

Money is the root of all evil in the bible? It's not there. The love of money above God, however, is the basis of many discussions in the bible. Wealth is not a bad thing.

I'm not wealthy, but what wealth I have allows me to do good beyond what I could do with less.

I will strive to do more and develop more wealth for the betterment of my family and those that I care to support. Be that with pediatric cancer research and the like, that is what I choose.

As for global warming? Based on the idea that some scientists have developed a "consensus"...

Well, when has science been a consensus? I think the last time was when the Holy Roman Empire decided that the Earth was flat, then that the Earth was the center of the universe. The religion of Global Warming and its push for the adoption of its basis for sin and pennance is not my religion. I believe in conservation, yes. But I do not believe in their "consensus".

There are too many reasonable questions like "What should the temperature of the earth be?" that cannot be answered by the leaders of the consensus. Nor will they answer why temperatures changed before man. And there's recognition of why Mars experiences similar swings in temperature differentiation during the same period with no industrialization and no people.
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:38 PM   #9
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the love of anything or anyone over god is wrong in the bible


Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


and the word "hate" is better defined as "love less than God"

(sorry couldn't help myself, the bible was brought up twice and I couldn't resist I know this isn't a religous site)
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Old 05-15-2008, 05:10 PM   #10
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how 'bout this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/14/bec...ent/index.html

tax free AND tax funded profit while govt approved
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