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Old 01-18-2017, 02:41 PM   #1
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In 3 years, Renault Zoe 2x electric power with same battaery size

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEIzORzvbdQ
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:47 PM   #2
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Renault beat all the big names, Tesla included, to make an affordable mainstream cheap EV with a decent range. The fact that when old Zoe's need new batteries people can upgrade is a huge selling point too. It's a great car.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:24 PM   #3
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Is the Renault Zoe and the Nissan Leaf the same car? Or is the Zoe smaller?
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:19 PM   #4
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Zoe is smaller. I've been lead to believe they share many parts given Renault/Nissan are the same company, and despite the Leafs popularity, Nissan are slower to add the better battery pack, plus the Leaf costs alot more. The Leaf is the best selling EV globaly, but the Zoe is the best selling EV in Europe, probably thanks to its compact size.
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:10 AM   #5
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I've just checked the pricing in Ireland for the Zoe.

The Car is 17,490 which is not too bad.

But the killer is the Battery Hire charges.

https://www.renault.ie/vehicles/new-...-charging.html

It works out roughly 12-13c per mile, which is roughly what I am paying in Petrol costs, now I know I have servicing and other consumables to take into account, but I still think that this is where electirc cars start to fall down a little.

Oliver.
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:41 AM   #6
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Since both step daughters live right at 85 miles from our house, 200 mile range would be about perfect. I was told on this forum that Nissan would not upgrade the Leaf's battery pack for extended range, even though the car is just over 5 years on the market.

With my 2015 Mirage at 3.5 cents per mile in fuel costs, at just under 27k miles, even including the cost to purchase, it's getting down to close to 50 cents a mile, total cost of ownership and that's if I just threw the car away right now. Since there are no emissions (ZOE), I wonder if Nissan will ever bring this car to the US, but they are probably selling them as fast as they can make them in Europe, where the driving environment is totally different.

Double the range on the Leaf, make the used ones upgradable and we are really close to going electric. With 3 @ 5 gallon gas cans in the back the Mirage would go half way across the US without any refill (24.2 gallons at 58 mpg).
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:06 AM   #7
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Tesla will have an upgrade pack for the Roadster. The 60S uses the 75kWh, which can have the full capacity unlocked over the air. Otherwise, offering battery upgrades isn't in the car companies interest, as it isn't for them to offer a 6 or 8 speed transmission that can drop into your old 4 speed.

Battery leasing gets the car price down, but the overall ownership costs are higher. How easy will it be to sell a 5 to 7 year old car without a battery?
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:03 AM   #8
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That's a good point on the resale.

If the battery is leased, there will be no option but for the new owner to also lease the battery pack at which point it could probably start getting expensive.

The alternative would be to buy an old car and a new battery, again quite expensive, a bit like buying an old car and a new engine, not something that many people do that I am aware of.

It is early days though at the moment, the business models will get refined and you may end up just leasing the car completely, not just the battery, that could be an option.

Oliver.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:25 AM   #9
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Leasing is already an option. Toyota is considering a time share option for the Aygo BEV, but I think that will have limited markets.

Battery leasing was a fine option for getting the entry price down for BEVs. Renault's stance on lease only raises problems, like reselling the car.

Battery costs are coming down, so leasing the battery benefit is going down.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:47 AM   #10
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I've seen plenty of ZOE'S with "battery owned" in the for sale title. I guess it depends what suits your needs and your mileage. I'd rather buy than lease the battery, but then I'd rather not pay to replace a tired battery in 10-15 years either (even though they'd be alot cheaper by then)
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