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Old 12-06-2005, 12:52 PM   #11
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Re: Why Toyota ever canned the

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Originally Posted by chesspirate
Why Toyota ever canned the ECHO i'll never figure, they canned it right before the gas prices went up. I called a dealer and they said that people had been calling for them like crazy, the new car supposedly will sell better, although I still think it's ugly.

How about the new Kia Rio? been redesigned, said to get 39mpg freeway with it's automatic tranny, more than the stick actually, wonder how that happened?
A lot of development is going into the CVT (Constant Variable Transmission). In theory it is just as efficient, if not more efficient, than manual transmission.

let's face it, Americans want free up their hands to eat greasy fast food, watch DVDs, put on their make-up, or talk on their cell phone. I forsee manual transmission being a thing of the past.
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:07 PM   #12
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I'd never buy the Honda Fit

I'd never buy the Honda Fit for that price. I'd rather get a 2 door civic. It has more power, more room and gets the same gas mileage. It's only a grand more from the base price.
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:26 AM   #13
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Re: I'd never buy the Honda Fit

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I'd never buy the Honda Fit for that price. I'd rather get a 2 door civic. ... gets the same gas mileage
this is a sad trend... the imports have dropped the ball when it comes to offering truly efficient small cars in north america: their new sub-compact cars are hardly more efficient (and sometimes worse) than their compact cars.

- the yaris is less efficient than the echo hatchback it replaces, and the corolla gets better highway mileage.

- the aveo is shockingly thirsty for its weight and power. it has the same combined rating as a (manual shift) cobalt sedan, and it gets trounced by the pontiac (toyota) vibe (matrix).

vw would have the small AND efficient market to itself if it would just bring the polo over and offer both the gas and diesel motors (there's one currently being evaluated by the canadian ministry of transport, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's coming).
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:51 AM   #14
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Re: Why Toyota ever canned the

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Originally Posted by chesspirate
Why Toyota ever canned the ECHO i'll never figure
ah, but they didn't, really. the scion xa is essentially an echo hatchback (same platform, dimensions & mechanicals, but different sheetmetal as the canadian market 4-door echo hatch). we don't get the scion brand in canada.

but i guess one thing i can be thankful for in the canadian market is slightly more choice of small cars. canadians in general tend to buy smaller cars than you guys - it's often quoted here that canadians have a slightly european take on cars: buy what we need, where americans buy what they want. evidence of that:

- canadians bought 10 times fewer large SUVs, even after adjusting for population size.

- our top selling car: civic sedan; american top selling car: camry.

- we've had the 2- and 4-door hatchback version of the echo available since 2003, and it has sold well (i've driven it and was considering looking for a used one before i got bit by the firefly bug)

- the smart fortwo diesel has been available here for several years and they're selling like mad

- the cdn department of transport has been evaluating several vw polos (i've seen them in ottawa), though they say it doesn't necessarily mean vw is bringing them here.

- diesels: 40 percent of VWs sold here are diesel equipped, a far higher proportion than in the states

unfortunately, by the time these cars are on the used market and in my price range, they're getting a bit rusty. you guys at least have the option of looking south for rust-free cars that are still worth fixing up and keeping on the road.
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Old 01-07-2006, 08:21 AM   #15
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Small fuel efficient cars

No car makers think they can sell truly fuel efficient cars in the US. Volkswagen has sold their "3-liter car" for years in Europe, but they won't import it to the US. It's called the Lupo over there, and it's equipped with a 3 cylinder turbocharged diesel engine.

In case you're wondering, the car is advertised to go 100 miles on 3 liters of fuel. That's almost 80 mpg, better than any hybrid sold in the US! The Lupo is slow, but it's not nearly as costly as a hybrid. A new Civic hybridcosts $22K!

Not everone wants a car that's slow, but why not give us the choice of really good fuel economy at a reasonable price?
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Old 01-07-2006, 08:39 AM   #16
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In VWs around the world

In VWs around the world driving test they actually got 114 something MPG on the damn Lupo over 24k miles or something, it's amazing. And the 4 door polo gets 90 or something silly. Unfortunately neither are Federalized for safety so they'd have to be totally redesigned for the US which = money and **** gas mileage.
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:38 AM   #17
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To get crazy good fuel

To get crazy good fuel economy you need less power. No car is going to sell in US with less then 50 horsepower. At least not now (only if gas goes to $5 a gallon or more).
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:57 AM   #18
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Americans like big, shiny,

Americans like big, shiny, fuel wasting things. When they want to go to a gas station they want to buy a lot of fuel. The SUV owners complain but when you ask them how many are married and have kids some shut right up. Half the people that drive an SUV never have more than 2 people in the car. The only time I saw an SUV used right was when one dude brought an SUV full of girls to my cousin's party. Every seat was taken. Americans are fat, to accomidate the extra weight they need bigger seats, bigger engines, better suspensions and etc.

Honda has a 450hp car that gets 60mpg so some Fit that gets 35mpg is out of the question. Honda has the european diesel accord that has 140hp and 250ft tq and gets 92mpg. The manufacturers are more than capable of making cars that have good power and great fuel economy. The hybrids we have now can be easily converted to get 200+mpg if Honda/Toyota really wanted. Every Manufacturer company is corrupt by the governments and the oil companies. Enough said.

If US starts importing cars that get 60+mpg(not just the hybrids, but all kinds of cars) do you know how bad the oil manufacturers will rape us??? Gasolene will be more hard to come by than cocaine.

BTW, the new redisigned camry will have that same exact grill as the toyota Yaris.
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Old 01-07-2006, 10:56 AM   #19
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Re: Americans like big, shiny,

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Originally Posted by Compaq888
Honda has a 450hp car that gets 60mpg
Link please? I read about a CRX that got over 400 HP once and it was so powerful it couldn't even move. It just spun the tires. I'm having a difficult time believing that Honda makes a 450HP commercially available car that gets 60mpg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Compaq888
The hybrids we have now can be easily converted to get 200+mpg if Honda/Toyota really wanted. Every Manufacturer company is corrupt by the governments and the oil companies. Enough said.
easily converted to get 200mpg? COnsidering that the enthusiasts can only get the hybrids to break 100mpg I am not sure how the automanufacturers are going to magically pull another 100mpg out of thier rear end. It would really be a cool trick though, and one I'd like to watch.

Another statement which I've heard a billion times (and used to believe myself) is that the car companies are in bed with the oil companies. I just don't buy it. The free market dictates that the auto manufacturers would actually benefit more by offering 200mpg hybrids, 90 mpg sedans, 450hp cars that get 60mpg, etc. Honda would gladly offer a 200mpg hybrid to eliminate the competition. And if gas then goes up to $5/gallon, more people will be buying their hybrids. It's a winning scenario for them. But you claim that the car companies actually make money by NOT selling cars, which I don't buy.

This goes back to the 200mpg carburator story that has been told time and time again. Big bad oil comes in and steals a 200mpg carburator from a guy to prevent him from offering it to the world.

Yeah, okay. Big oil is corrupt, sure. They want more money, okay. I don't for a second believe that they have somehow managed to convince auto makers to not produce more efficient cars. If you want someone to blame for the lack of efficient cars, blame the US Gov't, who won't allow these efficient cars into the country.

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Old 01-07-2006, 12:05 PM   #20
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Big oil, etc.

Let's face it folks, governments DON'T want us in efficient cars and trucks.

Fact 1 In Massachusetts, I remember distinctly that gasoline taxes were raised after the Big Three automakers finally started selling cars that get decent mileage, back in the '80s. The newer, good mileage cars cut into gas tax revenues.

Fact 2 Some states where hybrids are popular are already considering taxing hybrids because while they use the roads, they don't pay nearly as much in gas taxes.

The gas tax is such a cash cow that the states and the Fed can't can't fund their budgets without it. Money talks. Tax money shouts.

Today, nearly every global carmaker sells highly pollution-controlled, inexpensive European and Asian models that get about 60 mpg. Manufacturers could add airbags, Federal spec bumpers and door beams and sell them in the US. With the average model redesign on a four year cycle, the investment would be minimal. But they won't make them in US-spec, despite demand from people like us.

Honda and Toyota could build 100 mpg versions of the Civic and Prius hybrids right now, simply by replacing their gas/electric motors with diesel/eletrics. Modern diesel/electrics could even be less polluting than today's gas-only cars. But they don't build them despite the demand.

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but you DO have to wonder sometimes.
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