Off-topic chat thread

[JockoT]

You wouldn't be asking them to do anything. Just asking them if it is considered normal. Who would be better able to tell you than a Peugeot technician.

[Draigflag]

Worth a shot I suppose.

[Draigflag]

Check it out guys, spotted a rare mule/test car here earlier today, possibly the new CLS? Driver was keen to get a move on obviously! You get lots of motoring journalists here due to the cool roads, but only ever seen one other disguised pre-production car like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmOEc1Ezs10

[JockoT]

Another diesel, by the sound of it.

[Draigflag]

Originally Posted by JockoT

Another diesel, by the sound of it.

Yes, I think diesel will still be king for a long time in Europe, especially the clean Euro 6 models, it will soon be time for petrol cars to clean up thier act!

[SteveMak]

Originally Posted by Draigflag

...I think diesel will still be king for a long time in Europe...

I'm on my first diesel vehicle (a 2015 Audi Q5 mid-size SUV, Dieselgate Edition). Aside from the emissions scandal, I love my 3.0 liter diesel engine. My SUV is quicker than my previous BMW 328 sports car, it obviously offers a lot more space and comfort, and it gets considerably better fuel economy to boot. I'm sold on diesel.

When it comes to the anti-diesel crowd, people forget something important: What do we do with all that diesel fuel? When a standard 42-gallon drum of crude oil goes to the refinery, the people at the plant can do very little to determine how that crude is broken down (refined) into its various output products. It so happens that about 26% of that crude comes out as "ultra-low sulfur distillate fuel oil" that's sold as diesel fuel for vehicles, and as heating oil in some locales. (About 48% of crude comes out of the refinery as gasoline/petrol).

So the banning of diesel powered vehicles in some locations does not mean "no more diesel is burned." It surely will be, somewhere, somehow. And because locales are not in their own discrete geodome, those diesel emissions will be shared by the citizens of the globe, because we all share the planet's air supply.

This is a big reason why I'm a fan of genuinely cleaner diesel vehicles. They already produce significantly less CO2 than gasoline engines. They just need to get their NOx under control. And all ICE manufacturers need to be honest about emissions rather than gaming the system to enhance their profits (the historic and current pattern for virtually all ICE models sold).

[Draigflag]

The N0X emissions which are the "main concern" of diesel vehicles are actually higher on a cold start petrol powered vehicle, so in fact banning diesel cars will not reduce N0x emissions enough to make a noticeable difference. Even hybrids have been criticised a lot, as they usually have petrol engines too, and take even longer to warm up as they switch between petrol and electric power.

The other concern, particulate matter, has already been resolved by removing the sulphur from the fuel, and fitting filters, so modern petrol powered cars actually have higher particulate emissions than modern diesels, but they won't publish that in the press...

[trollbait]

For the diesel fraction of petroleum, refineries can always crack and reform it into gasoline and other products. The portion of petroleum that is 'naturally' occurring gasoline does not meet the demand, and we have been meeting that by cracking and reforming other fractions for awhile now.

Diesels also suffer from higher emissions from a cold start, and warm up times for petrols can be made shorter. Hybrids already make use of the technology to do so, and once warmed up, it takes about 20 to 30 minutes for everything to cool down out of the hot zone. This means hybrids have the same number of cold starts as any other car for a trip. However, some pollutants spike no matter the temperature, NOx isn't one of them, its mostly HCs. The EPA tests include cold starts, and the Prius has a magnitude lower emissions than the cleanest ICE bin limits.

Everybody will also be moving towards preheated catalytic converters.

Higher particles for DI gets mentions in some articles here. The engines in the new Camry have direct and port injection to reduce them. There is also particles coming off the road, tires, and brakes. Tending to be heavier than an equivalent petrol car, these will be higher for a diesel.

[JockoT]

I think it all moot. I think we will all be driving (if we do drive them) electric cars sooner than we think.

[SteveMak]

Originally Posted by trollbait

For the diesel fraction of petroleum, refineries can always crack and reform it into gasoline and other products...

According to the information I've seen, the truth in that statement is tiny. The changes the refinery can make in the proportions of the output products can be changed, but only by tiny amounts. Just like you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, you cannot magically convert the diesel component of crude oil into gasoline, or into a non-diesel product. It will be diesel, or very close to what diesel fuel is.

Refining is the process of breaking crude into its component parts and removing "impurities". It is not alchemy (AKA: turning lead into gold).