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Old 06-03-2007, 12:08 PM   #11
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eoc near disaster: I had to jam the e brake and come to a skidding halt to avoid rear ending someone. I stopped eoc'ing after that. I was getting about 10mpg more with heavy eoc'ing, but it was NOT worth my life, or the lives of others.
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Old 06-03-2007, 01:52 PM   #12
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Relieved you guys are alright. No wonder you don't feel safe in your cars. I wouldn't feel safe being around you.

You talk like your cars completely lose their brakes. That is not true. When your vacuum is depleted you lose only the power assist. Otherwise your brakes are exactly the same, they just require additional pedal pressure.

I would suggest you become more familiar with your car. Knowing what your car can and will do is a great advantage in driving safety. Take it out on a deserted road, deplete the vacuum, get a good grip on the steering wheel and PUSH!!! the brake pedal. I can lock all 4 wheels. It takes some strength but I am no giant. If you can't stop it, you definitely should not be doing Engine Off Coasting. A few trips to the gym might be a help.

Another point on brakes. You can replenish the vacuum for your brakes with a momentary in-gear engine engagement, whether the engine is running or not.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:09 PM   #13
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i know my peddle locks up completly and no matter how hard i puch it will not slow down anymore so if i need to stop i just key on.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:14 PM   #14
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i know my peddle locks up completly and no matter how hard i puch it will not slow down anymore so if i need to stop i just key on.
You need the gym treatment. EOC is not for sissies.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:28 PM   #15
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Lunarhighway - I'm glad you are OK!

My brakes go so stiff, that if I stand on them (full weight) they don't do that much. This is because it is an old design, I suppose. I don't want to press them too hard or one of the pipes will probably burst.

When EOCing, using the handbrake (E-brake?) is best.

If you are going downhill, and need to slow down, you can press the footbrake, but remember that the important thing is that the vacuum is
used when you depress the brake. If you hold the brake down, and change the pressure, then you won't use up your vacuum anywhere near is fast as jabbing the brake a few times (I get 3 full depressions before it runs out), which is probably the same as 5 quick jabs on the brakes.

Anyone contemplating EOCing should test their car at a low speed on a straight piece of safe road, to see when the vacuum runs out (how many brake applications).

And also should be ready to put the car in gear in an instant to get vacuum if they need it (which is what I did once or twice a few months ago when starting EOCing). This maneouvre could be a lot quicker than using the e-brake to stop. That said, you should never let the vacuum run out - I never do these days.

P.S. Is there any way a vacuum gauge could be fitted to the brake vacuum chamber to see the state of the vacuum? That would be good
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
Lunarhighway - I'm glad you are OK!

My brakes go so stiff, that if I stand on them (full weight) they don't do that much. This is because it is an old design, I suppose. I don't want to press them too hard or one of the pipes will probably burst.

When EOCing, using the handbrake (E-brake?) is best.

If you are going downhill, and need to slow down, you can press the footbrake, but remember that the important thing is that the vacuum is
used when you depress the brake. If you hold the brake down, and change the pressure, then you won't use up your vacuum anywhere near is fast as jabbing the brake a few times (I get 3 full depressions before it runs out), which is probably the same as 5 quick jabs on the brakes.

Anyone contemplating EOCing should test their car at a low speed on a straight piece of safe road, to see when the vacuum runs out (how many brake applications).

And also should be ready to put the car in gear in an instant to get vacuum if they need it (which is what I did once or twice a few months ago when starting EOCing). This maneouvre could be a lot quicker than using the e-brake to stop. That said, you should never let the vacuum run out - I never do these days.

P.S. Is there any way a vacuum gauge could be fitted to the brake vacuum chamber to see the state of the vacuum? That would be good
landspeed. I disagree that the handbrake is the best. At most you are only using 2-wheel brakes with the handbrake.

You are more more familiar with cars than to believe you are going to burst your brake lines!!! You do not put additional pressure in the brake lines or cylinders than before vacuum depletion, just additional pedal pressure is required.

I repeat, EOC is not for sissies. Push the damn pedal!!!!
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:12 PM   #17
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I do push the pedal. when my brake runs out of pressure, it takes alot of pressure. When I was first starting, I lost pressure at around 20 mph, and pushed so hard that I was afraid of breaking the back of the seat and it still didn't stop. Some power brakes are really stiff when they have no vacuum.
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CO ZX2 View Post
I repeat, EOC is not for sissies. Push the damn pedal!!!!
Or just switch to a manual booster. More stopping power than a vacuum booster with vacuum, but less than a vacuum booster w/o vacuum. And it's always like that, so there's no need to compensate for any changes, less to fix too...
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:32 PM   #19
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I do push the pedal. when my brake runs out of pressure, it takes alot of pressure. When I was first starting, I lost pressure at around 20 mph, and pushed so hard that I was afraid of breaking the back of the seat and it still didn't stop. Some power brakes are really stiff when they have no vacuum.
yea my trucks is like that. get about 3 or 4 good brakes then gets harder than a 2X4... i was letting my truck roll in my driveway and had the engine off and brakes depleated and even tried to stop it going 5 mph was a pain. i thought i was either going to break the seat or the steering wheel was gonna bend.

not all cars are equal, thier all different.

4 wheel brakeing is the best because 70% of your stopping power comes from the front wheels. only 30% of your stopping power comes from the rear. thats why if you break a brake line, it takes 2X or more to stop.
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:58 PM   #20
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CO ZX2, it is not a question of whether or not you can depress the unassisted pedal, but if you can stop the car that way when you have a split second to react. Muscling the pedal on a 91 civic hatch takes more than a few seconds to mash completely. That is not good enough.. in traffic, or with deer.
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