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Old 06-16-2011, 12:58 PM   #11
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

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Originally Posted by alvaro84 View Post
Really nice mpg. I was appalled how bad the participating BMW F650GS was (practically Teresa's twin sister with a beak, different tires and and chain drive), but then I saw that it was at 70+mph in strong headwind I kind of understood that 59.6mpg... In those circumstances the Ninjette's 93mpg is even more impressive.

And I realized that this Craig Vetter challenge is not about 'real life conditions' for me. If some idiot tailgates me I let him pass instead of accelerating to 70+ mph There are no miracles, my FE is made by hypermiling, not by a fairy grandmother
So at what speed do you 'cruise along' on your F650?

I've express doubt about your combined fuel consumption of 78+mpg..
After seeing the results of the Vetter Challenge, makes your 78+mpg.. just unbelievable.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:36 PM   #12
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

If I happen to cruise, I do it at 70-80km/h (45-50mph), the absolute bottom of 5th gear. But I often P&G, between 70 (45mph) and something between 80-110 (50-70mph), depending on the circumstances. I do it almost all the time on declines, and hold a steady <=80km/h, accelerate on the crest then glide down. If the decline is long enough (>~600m), I often FAS it.

And I strive to avoid the use of ANY brake. Engine braking included. In city I FAS to reds if I can't do the light without stopping. I'm far from perfect in it, but good enought not to get worse FE in the city if it's not too congested.

At steady 70mph, in headwind, I couldn't do better than this guy. Maybe a bit better if I'm smaller (can easily happen). There are no miracles. Even though Miki Sayaka says otherwise.

Anyway, the factory data for the F650CS is 3.0l/100km (78.4mpgUS) at a steady 90km/h.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:17 PM   #13
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

I see no reason to doubt alvaro's claims.

Vetter had fuel eco contests decades ago and they quickly evolved into a competition that had little relevance to street vehicles. Vetter is trying to swing things in the other direction, making streetability, utility, and user-friendliness top priorities, as well as ensuring that there will be no puttering around at sub-legal speeds, so that the efforts expended are not just academic and so real live useable product development happens that benefits the consumer.

I personally thought Vetter had gone a skosh too far by requiring 70 mph capability into a 30 mph headwind, as 99% of my driving is done on 55 mph roads (with 45 mph minimum speed limits) and even on that rare occasion I find myself on a 65 mph limit road, I still go 55 anyway. So a high efficiency bike that would be perfectly suitable and legal for my conditions would be disqualified at the Vetter challenges as being too slow. But I've come to realize fair is fair- he has his road conditions and I have mine, and in order to develop the sort of vehicle Vetter and I both want- an ultimate efficiency bike for the street that anyone anywhere can have- it has to be able to handle the harshest conditions of the two.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:55 PM   #14
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

The roads I take have a speed limit of 90km/h (56mph), which is basically the same as your 55mph roads. And I don't know about any lower limit on these: sometimes even I meet (big and heavy) vehicles that I have to pass if I want to stay over 70km/h(~43.5mph) and not to shift back.
And I just admitted that even I speed on my pulses... and in my favourite turn, which, for some reason, has a 40km/h speed limit while I LOVE to take it over 70... (but I keep this 40 in dark, foggy, freezing winter dawns... just the way it feels safe.)

Other than my commute, on main roads with heavier traffic I try to just do the speed limit (which is 90km/h most of the time), and if I happen to take a 2x2-lane motorway I still don't go much faster. Speed limit is 130km/h there (81mph) and I usually do 90-100, I only accelerate to pass something slower, then I immediately return to the rightmost lane and glide down to my normal speed. Anything that heavier than 3.5t have a different speed limit of 80km/h there, so even if they speed a bit I occassionally have to pass them. On normal 2-lane roads their limit is 70km/h, but they seldom keep it.
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:51 PM   #15
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

I started working on the tailsection and my initial CAD testing indicated a noticeable improvement in drag reduction with no worse handling from side winds. I went to visit my new motorcycle streamlining guru Alan Smith to show him the work I've done on the front fender, windscreen, tailsection , lowered seat pad and rear wheel enclosure. He recommended I lower my windscreen to shoulder level and contour the side to better direct the airflowcloser to my body. He also recommended I round off the leading edge of the front fender, cover the fork legs and brake calipers, fair in the hand controls, reduce/ reposition the mirrors, reduce/ recontour/repalce the long stalked turn signals.
I wish the Vision was chaindrive instead of shaft drive so that I could gear it up. I'll try a larger rear tire after I wear the current one out.
The sidewind steering interference is noticeable but I'm adjusting to it. I live in a great area for testing as its always windy here in the Livermore Valley. A framemounted fariring would help a lot. I had a 57 MPG tankfill so things are looking up.
all the best L&S
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:43 AM   #16
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

Nice, but do you ride 'straight arm' as in the picture? doesn't look comfortable with arm straight and wrists curled upwards as in photo..
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:30 AM   #17
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

Thanks Cat, No wonder my %#$@@ wrists are so sore. JK Photos were an attempt to show body position but actually in looking at them I usually lean forward more with slightly bent elbows. I think the mods are starting to show some better results with the bigger tailsection and a lowered windscreen.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:25 PM   #18
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

Hi , The latest update on the Vision: 1) I did a tune-up: changed plugs, cleaned air filter, checked valves, tried leaner mainjets but switched back to stock as it ran like crap.
2) I left the sidepanels off so that I would access the carbs and I trimmed up the rear of my full coverage front fender. This seemed to help the handling in windy conditions.
3) I removed my stock mirrors and replaced them with some mirrors I made with some round convex stick-on mirrors and some steel strapping.

I just filled up today and it was my second best tankfill mpg average ever: 63 mpg. I had been getting high 50 mpg tanks since starting the aeromods, up from low to mid 50 tanks without aero mods. Things are looking up.
al the best , L&S
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:52 PM   #19
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

61 mpg on my last tank, I think the mods are working. !!!

all the best L&S
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:39 PM   #20
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Re: Craig Vetter Challenge, 5/13/2011, ridealong

63 mpg this tank. Next mod will probably be a larger rear tire . ^^^
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