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Old 09-10-2008, 07:48 AM   #101
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There are two different types of diatomic hydrogen molecules that differ by the relative spin of their nuclei.[19] In the orthohydrogen form, the spins of the two protons are parallel and form a triplet state; in the parahydrogen form the spins are antiparallel and form a singlet. At standard temperature and pressure, hydrogen gas contains about 25% of the para form and 75% of the ortho form, also known as the "normal form".[20] The equilibrium ratio of orthohydrogen to parahydrogen depends on temperature, but since the ortho form is an excited state and has a higher energy than the para form, it is unstable and cannot be purified. At very low temperatures, the equilibrium state is composed almost exclusively of the para form. The physical properties of pure parahydrogen differ slightly from those of the normal form.[21] The ortho/para distinction also occurs in other hydrogen-containing molecules or functional groups, such as water and methylene.

You can find the facts on hydrogen everywhere, many sites agree that when ignited in an oxygen rich environment hydrogen combustion increases drastically, but none of them say how much.
My dad has also read these post, he has stated that you know what you know very well, but that you are unwilling to consider anything else. he asked me why i'm even bothering with you and not to get him involved.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:57 AM   #102
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You have stated the facts for Hydrogen, and yes you are correct. I have stated research data on HHO. do some research, and then come back when you want to discuss HHO, not hydrogen
hydrogen is open shut, we already know all about hydrogen, and a car could use hydrogen, but it would require a whole hell of a lot more then i would need of hho. so yes, your argument is right.... for hydrogen. but i was never talking about hydrogen.
Every torch i have ever used has a VERY volatile gas tank accompanied by an oxygen tank, without the oxygen that volatile gas doesnt to anything but make smoke. when combined with the oxygen the power of the cutting torch is increased by an amazing amount.
and that is also the idea in HHO
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:06 AM   #103
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Yes, but that doesn't change the amount of **energy** stored in one unit of hydrogen, or your gas. The oxygen merely provides a means to release the energy that's already THERE. In the case of HHO, you yourself added that energy to the water in the form of electricity, which converted to chemically stored energy, the HHO. You CAN NOT get more energy from the HHO than you put in. That energy doesn't exist. Only the energy you put in.

Your torch's power goes up drastically when you add oxygen because it's CONCENTRATED. IT's the same amount of energy, but in a much smaller space: the size of the torch flame. If you measured the actual energy coming from the flame with and without added oxygen you'll find it's similar if not nearly the same. The oxygen just concentrates it into a nice hot little flame. Kinda like the difference between putting one gallon per minute of water through a itty bitty hose vs a big one. It'll trickle out the big one (big smokey torch flame) vs shoot real far out the small one (little bitty HOT torch flame) even tho it's the same amount of water going through both hoses.


Get it yet?
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:42 AM   #104
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dale, as this bash fest has gone on i have been getting attacked by smarter and smarter people.... why would i want to go back to a discussion with the bottom of that chain?
You can read, go back to my earlier post and check the sites i had posted
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:24 PM   #105
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I've checked your posts, and they're all bull. Sorry.

Bottom of the chain, heh. Sorry to say YOU are the bottom of the chain. Good day.
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:01 AM   #106
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okay, maybe he cant read.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:06 AM   #107
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Lurch you responed to one of my posts with an admission that my facts were correct.

It would be much more productive, if you avoided assuming people who take the time and energy to contribute here, are not subjected to character assasination. They may have a lot more educational background than either you or me and be capable of real positive contributions only to be deterred from doing so by unnecessary attacks and insults to their intelligence.

A lot of people come here and read to learn how we as a community have approached the issue of making the most of every BTU of energy we consume.

The choice is yours of course, but I will promise you one thing.

If you choose to have a contstructive debate without acrimonious comments about the intelligence of others, you will find it to be a pleasant constructive experience.

If you shoose to be combative and insulting, we can do the same. The ultimate cost to the operators of this site is wasted bandwith. The untimate cost to those who come here to learn, is they have to wade through a sea of crap to get the information they need.

As Patrick Henry stated once.

We can all hang together or we will be hung separately.

The powerful forces, oil companies, as well as other businesses that would suffer as a result of our success, don't want us to rock their boat and reduce their profit.

It could be assumed (I hope incorrectly) that you were a part of that effort, when you go after people who you consider to be less capable of reason and logic.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself seems to be a lost art in todays internet world.

Maybe you are right, I am just too old to be useful in your society, but i was raised in a world where you treated people with the assumption that they were deserving of your respect, even when you thought they might not.

regards
gary
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:09 AM   #108
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if i choose to be combative?? I didnt CHOOSE to be combative, I came to share what limited knowledge i have in hho so that others may benefit even if only a little.
But you guys assume i'm claiming i can run a car on water, You assume i am claiming 100mpg, you assume i am trying to be the end all be all of hho production, and therefore you start to attack, I didnt start the character assassination, you tell me i dont know what i'm talking about and to research more because i'm making a fool of myself.... YOU obviously had no idea why i was here and you didnt care to find out, you would rather assume i am another grand claimer of 100mpg on a on a 1990 buick. And after listening to dale for who knows how many posts i finally did to him what he has been doing to me this whole time.
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:04 PM   #109
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I have a 84 Ford F350 Dually Cab and Chassis with a modified Dualy Pick Up Bed installed.
It has a 6.9L Diesel Motor. My Baseline mpg is 14MPG Highway driving.
I have two Hydrogen Generators that I am installing and will be testing it over the next few weeks to see what increase in MPG I get.
I got one online and cloned another from the first i bought on EBAY.
I also will be looking at the Exaust to see if it clears any from what it is now.
The cells are made out of 10"X 4"PVC pipe. The electrodes are Stainless steel carriage bolts.
I have installed a continuous duty Relay that has voltage applied to it with the ignition switch on.
I have installed a toggle swith on my dash panel with a Green Light next to it to show the unit is actually energized. The Hydrogen Cells only are energized with the toggle switch turned on.
I did it this way for the electrical because it was too easy in my earlier set up to forget to turn off the switch, which did not have an "ON" indicator light.
I am installing the second unit on the truck this weekend.
I have glued a hose fitting elbow to the top of the air cleaner for the Hydrogen gas to enter the intake.
I have shown the unit to be producing HHO by pulling the hose from the air cleaner and putting the end of it into a clear jar of water. It was bubbling at a slow rate with the Wire supplied from the Kit.
I changed the wire for larger diameter and the Gas Out put increased significantly.
I believe installing the second unit will produce a greater amount of gas.

I am at the same time working on a six cell array.
It will be using Flowmatic canisters obtained on Ebay with two mounting racks obtained from a Flowmatic company.
When I get the six pack array made and installed on my Diesel Truck, I will use the previous systems on my two Diesel Mercedes in which I already am getting 30 mpg.
So we will see how this all turns out. I will return with verifiable results. Tow Joe
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:28 PM   #110
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Ok, the laws oh physics, everyone that makes these calculations are correct!

However, You are not adding in every variable.

You got to calculate the electrolyte that is being put into the distilled water, which causes the molecules to act much more rapidly.

So You calculate that and it would be correct that you can produce enough hydrogen to save a certain percentage on gas with only 15-20 AMPS. Which your alternator easily has left over.

Hope this helps everyone.
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