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Old 08-14-2008, 10:04 AM   #41
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So here's a thought: What if you made the HHO generator run off waste heat AFTER the catalytic converter? Could be before or after muffler, your choice. Preserves laws of physics, waste heat is ALREADY generated, won't use any alternator current, may work towards muffler goal as well?
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:34 PM   #42
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First run today.

I got my system in today. I guess I had my NaOH solution too strong. My current was about 15 amps but the unit got a bit warm and pushed more water out than it should. I did not run better yet. I have no EFIE or such, but I have a serious question.

There is a lot on the INTERNET about the need to lean the mixture out when running the hydrogen. If the hydrogen causes the fuel to burn faster why isn't there more discussion about how to retard the timing on computer controlled cars? So far that seems like a larger problem than the mixture to me. I am unconvinced about the claims that a cleaner burning engine appears lean to the oxygen sensor.

Just getting started. Not intending to hack the computer. Yet.
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Old 08-16-2008, 07:20 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101mpg View Post
So here's a thought: What if you made the HHO generator run off waste heat AFTER the catalytic converter?
I thought it requires electricity, not heat. If you're talking about making the heat into electricity, nobody here has thought up a cost-effective way to accomplish it.

Also, that energy is not entirely free, though I bet it's free enough. Apparently cooling the exhaust pipes will lower EGV.

Coolant heat, though less hot, is better than free since you sometimes need to expend energy to get rid of it.
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:49 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by DarbyWalters View Post
Does nobody have a problem using water or food sources for energy? It will be hard to drive anywhere on water if you are parched or hungry. They are finite sources of energy that are most important for thier intended use...substanance! Calling CORN a replentishable resource is falacious. It uses water and land resources that are at a premium. Solar power is on the opposite end of that spectrum...it comes from outside our planet. Wind power is generated from sources that also do not use up natural resources.
as long as the price of cornchips doesn't go up I'm all for it.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:52 PM   #45
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I guess my wordy questions are too obscure. I seldom get any answers at all so I am going to answer mine myself.

The only independent or third party verification of results that I have found on the internet is in this link.

http://www.hydrogencommand.us/Newsletters.htm

All the really positive results are with diesel engines and at higher power levels. I don't think this is applicable to my Saturn. If I cannot get a no load RPM increase I don't think this is worth a darn on my car. I tested this at 800, 1500, and 2300 RPM/. In every case I had a 20-40 RPM drop that was not recovered when the gas got to flowing. I am willing to do a lot of crap to my car but I draw the line at screwing around with this a lot more. Even the diesel engine results are questionable to negative at 25% load. Darn that is where my car cruises, 25% and lower. If I saw a faint flicker of positive I might pursue this further. The amount of hacking required to make a modern computer controlled spark ignition engine respond positiviely to this exceedes my interest level.

With hot air intake and Somender's grooves in my head there just is not enough low hanging fruit left to pick for this to do much good.

I am not saying that no conditions exist where this might help a spark ignition engine but in my case I don't see much chance of a return on this investment. I would rather work on improved aerodynamics and a possible electric assist.

That is my 2-bits for today.

Ernie

Quote:
Originally Posted by usedgeo View Post
I got my system in today. I guess I had my NaOH solution too strong. My current was about 15 amps but the unit got a bit warm and pushed more water out than it should. It did not run better yet. I have no EFIE or such, but I have a serious question.

There is a lot on the INTERNET about the need to lean the mixture out when running the hydrogen. If the hydrogen causes the fuel to burn faster why isn't there more discussion about how to retard the timing on computer controlled cars? So far that seems like a larger problem than the mixture to me. I am unconvinced about the claims that a cleaner burning engine appears lean to the oxygen sensor.

Just getting started. Not intending to hack the computer. Yet.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:09 AM   #46
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For those who think our government isn?t aware of this technology (they call it hydrogen injection) here are a couple of links.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-resea...Vs-Nov2007.pdf

This document from the U. S. DOT is from 2007 and lists hydrogen injection as a viable source to increase gas mileage and reduce emissions, though they have taken a very conservative estimate.


http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1977016170.pdf

Here is a NASA document from 1977, that talks about adding hydrogen injection to a gasoline-powered car to lean the consumption of fuel and reduce emissions.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:29 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Zukibot View Post
We've all seen the latest Popular Mechanics -HHO Test right?

More testing results from PM, coming in the near future...
You read this article and then be sure to read the replies to it.

I just found this forum and not surprised to find there is the believers and the non believers. I for one am a believer. I wish the ones who don't believe would use a section of the forum for We don't believe in HHO and post in that section so that the people who want to experiment with it can learn what they need to.. It needs to be stressed that SAFETY issues must be followed. Read a lot before you install.

The first unit I built gave me more power. I guess some think I was just wanting to believe. There may be some truth to the water decarbing the engine.

How many of you would drizzle water into your intake under a high throttle, You don't let the engine die... This will decarb your engine. This was told to me by an aero space engineer that worked at the cape. I personally like to use sea foam to decarb an engine.. This engineer is also experimenting with the HHO generator. He said he was monitoring his injector pulse and it did not change.. He had not adjusted any of his o2 or map sensor feeds to the computer either..

Any way I'll come back here because some of you believe. If you want to find some places that are more on the I believe side try Yahoo groups WATER CAR and Hydroxy
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:24 AM   #48
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I just stumbled across this thread and wanted to jump in here and thank Road Warrior for his explanation (on page 1) of how it is possible to increase gas mileage using a HHO generator. It is the first time I have seen a logical explanation of how users seem to get something for nothing. It is the only logical answer - they don't. Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting what was said, but here's what I got out of it:

In order to generate the HHO, you need some extra power from the engine (to run the alternator). To get extra power from the engine, you step on the gas pedal a bit more which opens the throttle. Opening the throttle reduces pumping losses making the engine run more efficiently. So you use more gas, but not as much as you'd expect. You don't get the energy to make HHO for free, but for cheap. The HHO system makes fuel for the engine. There are energy losses in making the fuel (HHO), but these losses are more than offset by the increase in engine efficiency due to decreased pumping losses.

I didn't mean to make this a long post, but I just saw a potential problem with making this work in practice. My understanding is that the HHO is not stored but used as it is made. So let’s say you get onto the freeway and get to cruising speed. At first you will have to have your foot into it a bit more to run the alternator to make HHO. But as the HHO gets made and sent into the intake air stream the engine is getting extra fuel. So to keep your cruising speed you would need to back off of the throttle, thereby increasing pumping losses. Thus you are giving back some of the efficiency you gained.

Even so, I can see it being possible that there is still a net gain, especially considering the use of waste heat to facilitate the HHO generation process.

Just trying to get my head around this. Thanks to all the (constructive) posters for the help.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:04 PM   #49
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I believe it was around the year 1990 Galileo was finally pardoned for his criminal charges from when he made the silly claim that the earth revolved around the sun.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:08 PM   #50
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In an HHO system you arent CREATING anything. Water is a reliable fuel source it just needs a little prep work to make it ready to use.
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