DIY Turbosteamer? - Fuelly Forums

Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-16-2007, 08:24 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 28
Country: United States
DIY Turbosteamer?

So I'm sure you've all heard of or seen the BMW Turbosteamer concept. Not really a new idea of course, but BMW being the "pioneer" in the field they are still a decade away from production.

What I'm wondering is... can an A/C compressor be run off a flow of steam, in effect, operating it in reverse? As I understand it, auto A/C compressors are of a reciprocating piston design, so I would think it is perhaps feasible. If so, then don't A/C equipped vehicles already have most of the plumbing and hardware required for a homebuilt "turbosteamer" arrangement?

Would it be feasible to install a heat exchanger around the cat, run a closed-loop system utilizing the existing condenser, etc., and add a few HP to the crank? I have almost no technical knowledge of the A/C system and also do not have a good understanding of how such input would be handled by the variable of crank/pulley speed and power.

Just an idea. Thoughts?
__________________

Maillemann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 08:36 AM   #2
Registered Member
 
JanGeo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,442
Country: United States
Send a message via Yahoo to JanGeo
Newer A/C compressors use a variable vane compressor and will not run backwards. Older ones if fed steem would have corrosion problems and the amount of energy available from boiling water is somewhat limited from the exhost when it comes to boiling water at a high temperature and pressure although a high speed sterling engine connected to an alternator may provide more useful energy back into the electrical system. you have to look at the total energy available at the exhost in the form of heat relative to the percent of the fuel burned not producing power and heat in the engine and then you can get an idea as to how much energy is available in the exhost for conversion, then factor in the thermal conversion efficiency of the system that will be added and see if it yields anything substantial to even bother with trying it.
__________________

JanGeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 08:37 AM   #3
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 682
Country: United States
I've long thought about using a steam cycle to make car engines more efficient, but there are big problems:

1) Freezing. Steam engines use water, not antifreeze.
2) You need a (big) condenser to avoid carrying 1000 pounds of water around.
3) Steam engines run al low speed (<1000 rpm) whereas gas engines go to 6000 or more. How do you gear them up?

There are lots more problems, but these are among the biggest.
__________________
Capitalism: The cream rises. Socialism: The scum rises.
Sludgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 09:16 AM   #4
Registered Member
 
The Toecutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 612
Country: United States
Send a message via AIM to The Toecutter
BMW is basically pinching off a big fat steamer onto the public with this complicated and apparently unreliable concept. It should make an EV.
The Toecutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 10:38 AM   #5
ELF
Registered Member
 
ELF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 245
Country: United States
I wonder what happens to emissions? If they take all the heat out of the exhaust how does the cat. work?
I do like the idea of trying to find a way use some of the energy lost as heat.
__________________
ELF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 10:46 AM   #6
Registered Member
 
omgwtfbyobbq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,516
Country: United States
It'd probably be easier to retrofit a MPFI engine for gasoline operation/TBI and add another cycle for water injection to take advantage of the waste heat. I've heard that emulsification of the oil can be a problem, so this may not be viable.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaTwo
I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
omgwtfbyobbq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 11:48 AM   #7
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4
Country: United States
I am new to this forum but have told many about this on others... I am doing a research project on waste heat recovery on my 1991 Honda CRX, somewhat similar to the BMW turbosteamer concept. There are many more complexities and feats of engineering that allow the BMW turbosteamer to recover such a significant amount of power from wasted heat. Waste heat recovery is by no means a new concept, as said earlier, but neither are electric cars, fuel cells, etc (All 30+ year old technology). I would not recommend taking this project on as a DIYer without a large amount of resources. I have been working on this idea for about 6 months now, working out the kinks, etc, and it not even close to being finished..

So to clarify and add some to the things said earlier...
-the Cat should have no problem being hot enough for operation if the system is designed correctly. I am planning on determining whether or not regulated steam injection into the pre-cat exhaust will decrease emissions as well, but it is well known that air injection into the exhaust helps burn unburnt hydrocarbons and reduces emissions.
-steam engines are infact extremely reliable and would probably be more of a common-sight had many inventors not been bought out, or unfortunate mishaps. Think of the advancements that could have been made had the steam engine persisted and the ICE did not...
-Steam engines, or more well put - Rankine Cycle engines, can run off multiple working fluids, including freon for example, steam is just usually reffered to when boiling water. The BMW system actually has another working fluid in addition to water (forgot what it was at the moment)..

So the big question is why bother right?
Well I like to think that if developed right, there could be waste heat recovery systems designed to simply bolt on to an older vehicle and increase fuel economy and decrease emissions. Why scrap a perfectly good car when you can just bring it up to standards by merely modifying it?
thecrxproject is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 09:11 PM   #8
Supporting Member
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,779
Country: United States
thecrxproject -

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrxproject View Post
...
...

So the big question is why bother right?
Well I like to think that if developed right, there could be waste heat recovery systems designed to simply bolt on to an older vehicle and increase fuel economy and decrease emissions. Why scrap a perfectly good car when you can just bring it up to standards by merely modifying it?
Welcome to GasSavers!

That's one of the reasons I am here.

CarloSW2
__________________

__________________
Old School SW2 EPA ... New School Civic EPA :

What's your EPA MPG? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp
cfg83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Log and Facebook MPG issue gherkin Fuelly Web Support and Community News 2 08-06-2011 03:12 AM
How can I get last year's data? sdean7855 Fuelly Web Support and Community News 1 01-20-2010 11:17 PM
Engine Types danb86 Fuelly Web Support and Community News 3 09-11-2009 01:54 PM
Compression Tester krousdb General Maintenance and Repair 7 07-12-2006 02:59 PM
Auto Show Season Begins rh77 General Discussion (Off-Topic) 9 02-10-2006 05:50 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.