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View Poll Results: Would you support lower safety standards to have more small cars in North America?
I already own a crash helmet - bring 'em on! 27 72.97%
Bad idea. Hummers don't need imported hood ornaments. 10 27.03%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-06-2007, 07:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skewbe View Post
Yah, this poll needs more options, like should should hummers or other oversized vehicles be banned, or their drivers charged with more serious crimes if they get in an accident and someone dies (you knew it would do more damange in an accident, and accidents happen, therefore it is akin to firing bullets in the air, i.e. automatic manslaughter at a minimum).

I DEFINETLY agree!
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Old 03-06-2007, 08:53 PM   #22
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That's really weird. I always thought that European cars were much safer than North American models.
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Old 03-06-2007, 08:57 PM   #23
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Smart prices

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Originally Posted by Rstb88 View Post
Actually the Smart Car is selling for far below 24k. Its starting somewhere near 11.-14k and maxing with all options near 20-22k. I could see 26k but that would be with either AMG or Brabus models(if AMG touched it and Brabus wasnt a British company.) My sources come from the website
I was quoting a price from the place selling Smarts in the Seattle area. They are all 24k+

Where did you see them for 14K? I may have to make a road trip!!

It makes a purchase more tempting!! Actually a Canadian diesel would be the best, eh Mr. T.
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:32 PM   #24
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Mike -

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Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
The premise of this poll is all wrong, as others have said.

The only reason that European cars (large AND small) that are not presently sold in the USA don't meet US crash standards is that the US standards require that an UNBELTED occupant be accommodated.

This accommodation takes the form of padding objects that a belted occupant would never hit, making so-called "passive knee restraints/bolsters" on dashboards, to ensure that the unbelted occupant in the front has their hips shattered in a bad collision as the bolster drives their thigh bones into the hips at high speed.

For example, G&K Automotive in LA has certified the present Model 450 smart car for sale in the USA. What they had to do in order to achieve this was pad all parts of the interior with foam, including the inside of the glass roof (!!), and reinforce the aluminium door frames against side intrusion (the smart was designed before side impact tests were mandatory). The basic body structure of the smart car was easily able to meet US standards, with no modification.

The version of the smart car sold in Canada also has reinforced door frames but none of the nonsensical padding for unbelted occupants.

Transport Canada said that the smart car was the ONLY vehicle - bar none - that has ever passed the (optional) rear impact test. This remains true over two years later.....

So yeah, European cars - small and large - are as safe as they need to be.
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!? I totally didn't know that. Amazing.

There is DEFINITELY merit in relaxing that standard and enforcing the seat belt law even more. Local towns would love the extra income in traffic tickets too . This thread was worth it for that nugget alone.

PS - I was raised without seat belts. I am more comfortable when I don't wear one, but I always do, because I'm not (that) nuts.

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Old 03-06-2007, 11:46 PM   #25
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RH77 -

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I think the SMART was really engineered with safety in mind, and is probably the outlier in the import discussion.

We need to take a look at a list of vehicles, why they would/wouldn't pass, and take a look at it that way. Is the Citroen C1 safe? Ford Ka, Fiesta? Opel Astra (could easily be sold as a Chevy).

RH77
Don't quote me on this, but I *think* the new Opel Astra that is coming to the USA as a Saturn has been pre-designed with USA crash standards in mind. This is because of the growing "Saturn-Opel" connection.

I want them to test a Fiat Punto :



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Old 03-07-2007, 03:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
The only reason that European cars (large AND small) that are not presently sold in the USA don't meet US crash standards is that the US standards require that an UNBELTED occupant be accommodated.
i think it's rather insane not to wear a seatbelt these days... no amount of padding is going to save to if you're propelled trough the front window...
if the police spots you without your belt over here it'll cost you 50? straight away... i don't know what some people are doing in their car but i really don't notice my seatbelt while driving

i live in europe, i can't compare the safety of vehicles of course... i suppose a car that's considdered mid sized here might be considdered small in the US, but other than that i think they're build to some very strict safety regulations.

i think it's just an excuse of car manifacturers to keep the markets sepparated...
over here they're all crying over propposed tighter emission standards.. saying they can't meet them because car's weight increased by all the imposed safety regulations...

porche even said they'd have to close down and it would lead to a massive loss of jobs if the standards where imposed... sounds like they're all still figuring out the shape of the wheel...
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Old 03-07-2007, 07:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by lunarhighway View Post
i live in europe, i can't compare the safety of vehicles of course... i suppose a car that's considdered mid sized here might be considdered small in the US, but other than that i think they're build to some very strict safety regulations.

i think it's just an excuse of car manifacturers to keep the markets sepparated...
over here they're all crying over propposed tighter emission standards.. saying they can't meet them because car's weight increased by all the imposed safety regulations...

porche even said they'd have to close down and it would lead to a massive loss of jobs if the standards where imposed... sounds like they're all still figuring out the shape of the wheel...
Thank you for letting us know how it is on the other side. It is good to know what the automakers are moaning about in Europe. I am a bit surprised that tighter emissions is the issue, I though that the current California standards are already tigher than the upcoming european standards.

I am not necessarily siding with the manufactures, but the resources required to meet politically driven emission and safety standards must be a pain, plus it takes away from figuring out how to improve the basic car, say how to the get weight out.
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Old 03-07-2007, 09:15 AM   #28
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the european comission wants to restrict co² emissions by 2012 to 120 grams co²/ 100km.
now the standard is 162 g/100km however this proposition has been played down under gernan pressure to 130 grams. german carmakers mainly focus on luxury cars (bmw,audi,porche...). although they're also looking into hybrid technology now... additional reductions are to be achieved by mixing biodiesel with regular diesel fuel (already required in belgium, although i'm not sure if it's always practicly implemented due to the biodiesel industry not being up to full capacity yet).

politicians seem to recougnise theres a problem and action is needed but it seems things are moveing slowly and industry is constantly stepping on the breaks, even threathening with loss of jobs ... i should think researching improvements would create more work...
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:20 AM   #29
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Heh, my car is rated at 90 g/km. Good thing Mercedes did not sell or shut down smart, or they'd be neck deep in EU poo-poo
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:58 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skewbe View Post
Yah, this poll needs more options, like should should hummers or other oversized vehicles be banned, or their drivers charged with more serious crimes if they get in an accident and someone dies (you knew it would do more damange in an accident, and accidents happen, therefore it is akin to firing bullets in the air, i.e. automatic manslaughter at a minimum).
i agree on this or at least fill out a permit on fullsize pickups and suv's(the large ones not the "crossover" things) so whoever owns it must prove they accualy need it for lets say a horse trailer, general farm use, have a large boat, camper, etc...
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