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Old 10-12-2007, 09:38 PM   #1
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Saw a disturbing Toyota Ad

The ad had 4 pictures representing clean air, save money on gas, power and quietness and was and ad for the Prius, Highlander and Camry hybrids.

One of those boxes is such pure waste and indulgence.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:43 PM   #2
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Well, to be fair, Toyota's highlander does have the best emissions emissions for something like that,
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Old 10-13-2007, 08:35 AM   #3
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hybridizing SUVs has more positive environmental impact than hybridizing small cars as long as people think they need an SUV.
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Old 10-13-2007, 08:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1993CivicVX View Post
hybridizing SUVs has more positive environmental impact than hybridizing small cars as long as people think they need an SUV.
exactly! that and doubling the mpg of an suv goes a lot further than double the mpg of a car... well depending on the car.

anyway what is the mpg of the hybrid highlander like? is it similar to other smaller suvs?

i mean think about it. if hybrid technology is spread across other types of cars beyond the fuel savers, the the technology has a better chance of refining itself and becoming more affordable.
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:25 AM   #5
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All MPGs are combined unless otherwise stated. All models are 2008

Here's a comparo of Lexus Hybrid vehicles and their similar non-hybrid counterparts. As well as Toyota Hybrids and their similar non-hybrid counterparts.

The Lexuses (or should I say, the Lexi?)

The GS450h gets 23mpg. (really large sedan) (22mpg city)
The GS460 gets 20mpg (non hybrid) (17mpg city--compare to GS450h)



The LS460 L gets 19mpg. (yet an even larger sedan)



The LS600h L gets 21mpg. (a ridiculously larger sedan: Lexus' largest sedan and flagship model)



The RX350 gets 19mpg (4WD SUV--compare to RX400h)
The RX400h gets 25mpg. (4WD SUV)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Toyotas

The Highlander 4WD Hybrid gets 25mpg.
The Highlander 4WD non Hybrid gets 19mpg



The Camry Hybrid gets 34mpg (compare that to the Honda Fit which gets 30)mpg.
The Carmy non Hybrid gets 25mpg.



The Prius combined gets 46mpg (48 city 45 highway)



The teeny non-hybrid Yaris gets a relatively dismal 32mpg.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interpretation of data:

Notice how the Highlander (both hybrid and non-hybrid versions) seems to be bigger than the Lexus SUVs and yet gets much better gas mileage than both Lexus SUV versions.

Also notice how much better the FE is between hybrid and non hybrid Camrys, even though they both have the same engine displacement of 2.4 liters. Also note that the big Camry Hybrid gets better gas mileage than the teeny little snot nosed Yaris!(?!?)

The Lexus hybrid and non-hybrid SUVs and the Highlander Hybrid and non-hybrid SUVs have the same engine displacement respectively (3.5l for non-hybrid versions and 3.3l for hybrid versions).

The hybrid GS450h has 3.5 liter engine, the non-hybrid GS460 has 4.6 liter, 8 cylinder engine.

The hybrid LS600h L has a whopping 5 liter V8.
It's slightly smaller? sister model, the LS460 L has a 4.6 liter V8. Note that the displacement on the hybrid is bigger than the LS460 L but its FE is still better. Also worthy of noting is that Lexus' ultimate in indulgence, flagship model is a hybrid! And has no non-hybrid equivalent. (The 460 L seems to be slightly smaller and probably not as luxurious)

source: http://www.fueleconomy.gov
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Old 10-13-2007, 01:41 PM   #6
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1993civicVX, you and i are on the same page here.

now what about the performance figures, how about the 0-60 times for the lexus hybrid vs non-hybrids? i bet the hybrids are quicker!

you dont have to do the research, its just my speculation. i also think its interesting that the toyota highlander hybrid gets better fuel economy than a lot of other 4 and 6 cylinder suvs like the 2.0liter crv and even the 3.3liter hondai sante fe
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Old 10-13-2007, 08:14 PM   #7
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I ran some user provided numbers from fueleconomy.gov for a comparo of 2007 Nissan Altima CVT and 2007 Nissan Altima CVT Hybrid.

200hp Hybrid 2.5L 0-60 in 8.0 secs. Non Hybrid 2.5L 175hp 0-60 in ~8.5 secs 175hp
user averages: 33.96mpg................................................27.24mpg

Annual Fuel Use ........441.7 gallons........................550.7 gallons
Annual Fuel Costs .....$1,325.10............................$1,652.1 0


Hybrid annual savings .....................$327.00

Gas savings over life of car (105,000 miles).........$2,289.00

Purchase price Difference between 2 cars...........$3,418.00

After 105,000 miles, premium for owning Hybrid is $1,129.00

Number of miles needed to drive before break even 117,780.28
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:50 PM   #8
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If you put the Prius into the hands of a GasSavers.org member that break-even mileage is lowered significantly. According to those figures above, I should reach that point at somewhat less than 100,000 miles.
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Old 10-14-2007, 04:13 AM   #9
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That is a good point. Having driven a regular car before getting my Prius I would probably chose the Prius again because it is so much easier to get better numbers than the Saturn. Then, when I put the effort into the Prius that I had to put into the Saturn to get those numbers, the FE goes sky high. If money were to be an obstacle I would get another Saturn though or, I would try to find a Metro or a good VX.
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theclencher View Post
note: assumes 15,000 miles/year and $3 gas.

parity isn't at 117,xxx; it's around 172,000M

which i would hope the cars would reach. who's car only has a life of 105,000M anymore?

point being, unless new car buyer keeps car past 172k (11 1/2 years!), or unless hybrid has higher resale value before then, there isn't much incentive to go hybrid in this case.

now if gas was a lot higher...
Very good clencher, not sure why I bungled the math on the break even point. Thanks for the correction.

Although I get 156,789 miles for parity, not 172k. I take the $1129 amount and divide it by the annual savings of $327 and then take that number and add it onto 7 years for a total of 10.45 years and also multiply it by the number of miles driven in one year which is 15,000 which gives me 51,789 miles which I then add onto 105,000 for a total of 156,789 miles. But maybe that is a flawed way of calculating?

As far as my arbitrarily choosing 105,000 miles as being life of the car, most people trade up before they've reached the end of their car's life.
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