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Old 01-09-2008, 10:39 AM   #41
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Old thread but I have to add... was searching for gas stations w/o e10 but I guess there aren't any. Sad.
It's interesting that very few understand the "benefit" of E85.
Beside polluting more, paying more and getting less mpg you will also pay more for your food and more for your healthcare.

They say how ethanol reduces greenhouse gasses by 20% but forget to mention how the production cycle of ethanol looks like, how the nitrate based fertilizers used by corn are derived (->oil) and how you'll be destroying (polluting) the earth in the process of making all that corn. It will (and already is) push food prices up so bottom line, you'll be paying a lot more.

On top of that, studies seem to show the exhaust gases made by ethanol are just as dangerous for human health if not more as those of regular gas, and there's an expectancy respiratory health issues will rise as more ethanol vehicles are on the road.

Ethanol is really not an alternative at all. You will not be able to make enough to replace oil, the US just isn't big enough

Personally I think electric vehicles might be the only good way forward but GM already killed EV1, doubt they will go back to it, probably not very profitable.
And even that might have it's issues, battery recycling comes to mind.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:37 PM   #42
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http://news.windingroad.com/automoti...lex-fuel-cars/
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotbeat View Post
An increase in fuel supplies will lead to a decrease in fuel prices for all motor fuel types.
That's all fine, but it's got a lot of rough, double edges on it.

If 10% of pump gas is ethnol, then less gas is needed in the supply.

But that means that the demand for ethanol goes up, as does the cost.

Additionally, one gallon of E10 doesn't get you as far as E00, for lack of a better term. So, the demand for gasoline doesn't really change, but the demand for ethanol still goes up.

Ethanol is subsized substantially also; it can't pay its way in the market place. Meanwhile gasoline manufacturers pay unreal amounts of money in taxes.

We had ethanol in Nebraska for probably thirty or more years. I have no experience in it being something that I want to be continued in a nationwide effort.


Certain areas of the country have been declared problem areas by the EPA, and those areas are required to have reformulated fuels. Often those are E10 to E15 fuels. Chicago and Milwaukee areas and their surrounding communities fall under that specificially because of a federal mandate. Often, stations just outside those areas have the same fuel because it's just easier to bring them what they have.
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:42 PM   #44
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It's food, not fuel.
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:10 PM   #45
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maybe the breeders have finally forced the resource/demand equation to the breaking point
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
That's all fine, but it's got a lot of rough, double edges on it.

If 10% of pump gas is ethnol, then less gas is needed in the supply.

But that means that the demand for ethanol goes up, as does the cost.

Additionally, one gallon of E10 doesn't get you as far as E00, for lack of a better term. So, the demand for gasoline doesn't really change, but the demand for ethanol still goes up.

Ethanol is subsized substantially also; it can't pay its way in the market place. Meanwhile gasoline manufacturers pay unreal amounts of money in taxes.

We had ethanol in Nebraska for probably thirty or more years. I have no experience in it being something that I want to be continued in a nationwide effort.


Certain areas of the country have been declared problem areas by the EPA, and those areas are required to have reformulated fuels. Often those are E10 to E15 fuels. Chicago and Milwaukee areas and their surrounding communities fall under that specificially because of a federal mandate. Often, stations just outside those areas have the same fuel because it's just easier to bring them what they have.
ayup, cant get regular non ehtonal here in IL. been liek that for at least 30 years or so. BTW its kidna useless to make a list of stations that have E10 since they ALL have it somewhere in the us. (BP, Shell, Citco, FS, caseys, marathon, mobil, 76, everyhtign else in IL has E10, same with most neighboring states)

it can cause some engien damage, ethonal likes to dteriate some rubber and plastics,(ie hoses and seals) but most cars since at least 1980 id say are E10 OK. Now E85 aroudn ehre is routenely 20-30 cents cheaper than regular E10. BTU we dont own a car thats 2000 or newer to accualy use E85
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:46 AM   #47
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Some of my aviation friends who run mogas in their airplanes have found stations that sell ethanol-free gas - I think you just have to look really hard.
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