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Old 04-24-2007, 12:32 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by omgwtfbyobbq View Post
I'd also be less inclined to kill the engine at stops or while coasting with a turbo, which takes some of the driver side of FE out of the equation. Not good for gassers imo.
I didn't even think of that. You're referring to the cooling down by keeping the liquids flowing after the car is shut of, right? I'll have to talk to some turbo gurus and see what they can suggest. The only thing I can think of would be an auxiliary electric pump.

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Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
Question : Since you have the EFIE docs, can you tell me how many amps it draws? I have the EFIE but I didn't order the docs. I want to put a fuse on it's power. The Eagle Research people told me it doesn't need it, but I would like to do it anyway.

Question : Also, since you have the docs, can you tell if it will act as a "pass through" if there is no power going to the EFIE? If yes, then I can put a switch on it in order to switch between real and faked 02 sensor input.

I can probably figure all of this out, but if you have the time, that would be great.

Thank You,

CarloSW2 the mooch
It doesn't list how much current it pulls, but the bridge rectifier is rated at 1 amp, so it can't be any more than that.

I know I put a switch on mine. I'm pretty sure the plans call for one. Mine is setup to run the O2 signal straight through with the switch in one position and the signal is modified in the other.

Matt
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:01 PM   #42
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Most of the posters with manual transmissions use some sort of coasting with the engine off coasting to help out mileage. I'd be hesitant to do this w/ a turbo because of the same reasons turbo timers exist. Like you said, you can circulate the oil via an electric pre-luber, but there's still thermal cycling of the turbo to deal with in order to take advantage of coasting.
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I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:58 PM   #43
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Turbo timers exist to sell turbo timers. For normal everyday driving, modern turbos are adequately cooled. They only need a cool down period when run hard. Much of that issue can be mitigated however by doing what many of us are already doing: use a synthetic oil. Synthetic oil will not coke up like dino oil until a much higher temperature.

In other words, if you have a turbo and are driving for efficiency, there's nothing to be concerned with on forced shutdowns. It's unlikely the turbo is getting hot enough to matter.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:22 PM   #44
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Well, actually, even though it isn't going balls out for half an hour, most P&G/etc.. involves high load up a hill, get to the top, coast down. Or accelerating with lots of throttle on a road, shut off at some speed. Driving for efficiency and shutting off the engine involves high load, which, according to the peeps at TDI club, can get a turbo pretty hot.

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200F after 1 min, creeps up to 300F after 3 min.

50mph level ground - 500F w/ 2psi

65mph highway level - 650F w/5psi

90mph highway level - 900F w/8psi

Basically for level cruising just add a zero to the MPH to get a close estimate to EGTs.

Floored acceleration from a stop through the gears - 1500F max.

For those who don't have an EGT gauge heres what I do in each situation.

50mph leisurely drive. Parking within 10 sec I get an EGT reading of 400F, 5 sec later it is at a nice 300F so I shutoff.

90mph highway driving, pull off to rest area, park within 15 sec of exiting the highway I get an EGT of 600F, after 30 sec it is at 400F, no more than a minute it is at a nice 300F so I shut it off.

IMHO I think that anything more than a minute is overkill, even when coming off the freeway at highspeeds.
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Farmerjohn please allow your tdi to cool down any time after driving, letting the turbo cool is absolutely crtical to prolonging it's life and performance. allow for three minutes after a gentle/city drive and 5 minutes after highway/performance driving. A good option is a DIESEL REMOTE STARTER with the TURBO TIMER. Which will allow you to remote start stop your car and it will allow the glowplugs to run it's made for diesel by prostart it allows you to set the time and leave the car will idle and then shut off.

Dear Joe I've been a heavy diesel mechanic my entire life, a plant engineer at wolfsburg, yes in the vw plant (got to see some cool concepts there late 80's), I also worked at a local injector turbo repair shop. I can not stress the importance of allowing the turbo to cool. It is made from fairly thin materials and is superheated by your EXHAUST. see if you can hold your hand on the tail pipe after a good drive.

It is also crucial to not let your car idle past five minutes. Because of reduced oil pressure not only at your turbo bearing but in the engine itself. Lubrication is crucial to the function of any engine.

hope this helps
So, for normal driving. Yes, turbo timers exist to sell turbo timers. But what I was referring to, P&G, CODFISH, etc... probably wouldn't be the best thing for a small DIY turbocharged engine.
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I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:23 PM   #45
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The thing is, with all those things about the turbo, this all assumes that you're using the turbo all the time.

If you don't use the turbo, none of those problems come into play.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:32 PM   #46
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Why would you have a turbo and not use it?
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:53 PM   #47
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For the times that you need it, such as merging on a rather fast highway.

Same logic could be said as to why don't you switch to a really really tiny throttle body if you don't really ever use WOT on your car. It's good to have power there in case you need it.

In going for FE, you are always as easy on the gas petal as you can be, and in those conditions, with a turbo, you never engage it. Only if you push down hard on the petal does the turbo ever engage. Heck, I only use my turbo maybe once or twice a day or so. I've gone up to a week without seeing any boost on my car.

So I can easily shut off the engine in a long coast, just so long as I haven't boosted in the past few minutes.

Turbos are not used nearly as much as most think. The "disadvantage" of the lag is actually quite the advantage if you're going for FE. Means that if you mash the throttle there's a second or so of hesitation before the turbo spools up and boosts. In that second, you have the chance to let off the throttle and make sure that no boost (extra fuel included) is engaged. You can accelerate rather well without ever using the turbo. (In my car, at least, but it's a 2.3, a rather big block for a 4 banger)

My main point is, a turbo only engages when you want the power. If you are easy on the car, the turbo is not used. It's just there in case you need the power for an "emergency"
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:58 PM   #48
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The other factor is that if you are turning the motor off while you still moving, there will be air cooling to some extent - whether that is limited by a grille block or not.
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Old 04-24-2007, 06:50 PM   #49
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@Biffmeistro
Sure, but then all that time the turbo is below it's efficiency range, it's just acting as a restriction, and hurting mileage. When it's in use, it'll be more efficient, but if it's only used occasionally, there won't be much benefit except for the extra power. And that can be had via an oxygen adder like Nitrous for much less cash and w/o the drop in efficiency during normal operation.

@Snax
Yes there will be air cooling, but it should be while the engine/turbo are operating and the entire system is cooling. Shutting off a turbo at 1000-1500 degrees and cooling it even faster than if it were stopped, w/o circulating oil, isn't exactly the best way to maximize lifespan. For anything mechanical, the time and range of thermal cycling can really impact useful lifespan. My 22R has probably lasted for so long time and mile wise because it doesn't heat up much for normal operation, so each cycle isn't as hard compared to if it ran twice as hot.

Imo, it's kinda like coasting w/ the engine off and automatic transmissions. Some may be o.k. w/ it and last nearly as long, some may fail significantly before they would've otherwise with it, but either way, I don't think the risk is worth the gain.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:08 PM   #50
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Ah, I see.

*smirk* And here is where I make a confession.

When I can afford it, I fill the tank with premium. And there is where the turbo is at it's best. (Or rather, most fun)

18psi, 200 HP, 250 torque... Slam you into the seat! With a bigger turbo, easily push 25psi and over 300hp on the stock motor.

But, I know that's not the point here... I'm just a bit of a junkie at times.

Can't give up the drug that is horsepower, but want to be easy on the budget with gas. Even with 300+ rwhp, I'll still be able to get 30+mpg if I'm docile.

THAT is why I have a turbo.

*is a heretic*
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