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Old 10-15-2007, 08:17 PM   #91
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I think #6 would make the strongest impact among the most people. If the tax structure were setup to provide a decent deduction based on the percentage that a vehicle exceeds an arbitrary average economy, there would be allot more takers. But it would be imperative that it is not another phony credit eaten up by the AMT like they passed off for hybrids.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:30 PM   #92
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perhaps add another item...

do away with CAFE and require a specific MPG based upon vehicle class, and give the manufacturers a % credit for each vehicle that they produce that exceeds the class average by each %...and a $1m penalty per vehicle that does not meet the class standard.

ie. set some goals that increase by 1 mpg / year (why not shoot for the moon)

subcompact -- 50mpg highway
compact -- 45mpg highway
midsize -- 40mpg highway
fullsize -- 35mpg highway
large -- 30mpg highway

small pickup/SUV (< 6000lb gvw) - 30mpg highway
large pickup/SUV (> 6000lb gvw) - 25mpg highway
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:43 PM   #93
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sounds alot more cohersed than desired
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:07 AM   #94
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sounds alot more cohersed than desired
Well...ok, maybe the $1m per non-complying car might be a bit harsh...how about instead of CAFE averaging for the whole fleet produced, just average within the class of cars. This would allow the manufacturers to produce several different models (sport, average, and FE) but give them an incentive to make people really LIKE the FE models. Then allow a % for % tax credit for exceeding the average in-class FE targets.

Heck, I remember my 1980 Toyota Corolla...little SR5 hatchback, fun to drive and got 42mpg on the highway with an IDIOT 18 year old driving it!! Makes me wonder what it could have gotten if I had an aluminum foot (compared to a lead foot). All that from a carb and a 5 speed. Leaves me VERY unimpressed with the current offerings, granted the pollution from that model v. current would be terrible...but a properly done MEGASquirt would eliminate much of the difference. Surely, the OEMs could do a bit better for less / unit!
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:54 AM   #95
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Quality. American manufacturers treat little cars like crap. You can't get a quality little car from them. Had an 88 1/2 Ford Escort once, and it was terrible. They feel the profit is in selling big vehicles at big prices, so all their marketing and quality is slanted that way. It's just the same as restaurants selling ever bigger servings to drive the perception of value so you feel you aren't being ripped off paying $10 for a "gourmet" hamburger. Can you even get a 1/4 pound burger anymore? Most places 1/3 is small, and 1/2 pound is standard.

Appearances? That Escort had the stupidest stuff for the sake of appearances. Had this real cheesy fake plastic air fin on the trunk and spoilers on the sides that after a few years of sunlight became brittle and would shatter at the lightest blow. They didn't do a thing for aero, just added weight to the car. Real frustrating seeing the manufacturer run up costs for bs like that when they were so cheap everywhere else. For instance, the headlight switch failed because they were too cheap with the components-- contacts simply weren't enough to last for more than a few years. Same for the ball joints, just too small to endure 100,000 miles.

Performance. To really appreciate why people like a bit of performance, try driving a really slow car, something like a 0-60 time of 20 seconds or worse. Any truck drivers on the site? You'll discover just how much stoplights suck. Nothing like not being able to make the next light because your car isn't fast enough, and then being punished again because it'll take forever to recover all that momentum when the light finally does turn green. Make stoplights friendlier, and I bet people would be more tolerant of lesser performance.

Safety. I wonder if a selflessness angle could help. Safety through size is selfish. Makes everyone else less safe to make yourself more safe. So have some consideration for others, and drive a little car. Also, is there any study showing that size does matter for frequency of accidents? Are big vehicles more likely to be in accidents because the tolerance for error is less? I find a wider vehicle makes rolling down the highway a little more tense, have to correct the steering more often to stay in the lane.
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:26 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by bzipitidoo View Post
Quality. American manufacturers treat little cars like crap. You can't get a quality little car from them. Had an 88 1/2 Ford Escort once, and it was terrible. They feel the profit is in selling big vehicles at big prices, so all their marketing and quality is slanted that way. It's just the same as restaurants selling ever bigger servings to drive the perception of value so you feel you aren't being ripped off paying $10 for a "gourmet" hamburger. Can you even get a 1/4 pound burger anymore? Most places 1/3 is small, and 1/2 pound is standard.

Appearances? That Escort had the stupidest stuff for the sake of appearances. Had this real cheesy fake plastic air fin on the trunk and spoilers on the sides that after a few years of sunlight became brittle and would shatter at the lightest blow. They didn't do a thing for aero, just added weight to the car. Real frustrating seeing the manufacturer run up costs for bs like that when they were so cheap everywhere else. For instance, the headlight switch failed because they were too cheap with the components-- contacts simply weren't enough to last for more than a few years. Same for the ball joints, just too small to endure 100,000 miles.

Performance. To really appreciate why people like a bit of performance, try driving a really slow car, something like a 0-60 time of 20 seconds or worse. Any truck drivers on the site? You'll discover just how much stoplights suck. Nothing like not being able to make the next light because your car isn't fast enough, and then being punished again because it'll take forever to recover all that momentum when the light finally does turn green. Make stoplights friendlier, and I bet people would be more tolerant of lesser performance.

Safety. I wonder if a selflessness angle could help. Safety through size is selfish. Makes everyone else less safe to make yourself more safe. So have some consideration for others, and drive a little car. Also, is there any study showing that size does matter for frequency of accidents? Are big vehicles more likely to be in accidents because the tolerance for error is less? I find a wider vehicle makes rolling down the highway a little more tense, have to correct the steering more often to stay in the lane.

ok i have the slowest of the slow cars.. i have a chevette(no need to explain that one) i think pedal to the metal all out aceleration is like 17-20 seconds...YET it can climb any hill i come accross. im happy with my 2 velchles (bolth under 100hp), truck takes liek 16-17 sec yet most people arent flooring it or since its got bondo/primer spots all over it they stay back. the middle age crowd now had chevettes in college/highschool so they either take it easy behind me or float way back there(could be from the stinky exhaust)

ok not only american cars have "plastic cheese stuff" ive seen plenty of camrys with spoilers and side skirts and plenty of em with crappy interior design.

my dad had a 82 escort, thing lasted untill about 94ish when we sold it(had like 150K on it and still ran good)

my friend had a 1994 escort, he slid off the road, rolled it about 4 times(roof totally caved in, no glass left) and the engine was still running. they drove it back on the road and on the flatbed tow truck

that and whats this i heard about on the news that toyota got rated poorly for projected reliability of the new cars? lol ford is supposed to be good...
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:44 PM   #97
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i don't know what out there is slower than a rabbit diesel but you know what, it doesn't matter. it gets up to speed eventually.
Vera. I can speed along at 65-75mph in the fast lane getting 40-50mpg on LA freeways np. I will say that the only down side is climbing hills w/ a lot of weight. I take a couple ~10&#37; grades, and people can get pissy on the single lane one if someone isn't going 55+mph, but that can as easily be changed with gearing that'll allow me to make peak power at near 55mph instead of what I have now. So even then it's not a question of appropriate power so much as appropriate gearing.
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I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:47 PM   #98
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yall know i like the fords

iy'de say the quality of my little fords is on par with that of the big ones. in fact my '94 F150 which got a lot more pampering than the '92 Tempo, is rustier. big tough trucks indeed

100hp is really TOO MUCH for the Lambo and Spaz. I never need to floor it for any occasion and over 100 mph is useless. as far as slow accel, i don't know what out there is slower than a rabbit diesel but you know what, it doesn't matter. it gets up to speed eventually.

it's simply not true to single out the domestics for making crap. for every example of domestic junk i can match that with a piece of foreign junk. mind you, i'm a big enthusiast of lotsa older foreign stuff but ya hafta be real.
lol same...i must say i think it was near impossible to kill chevy's iron duke engine...( i think my chevette has that) id say usually the car would rust away before the engine took a dump...

that is true, anything can get up to speed eventually.

lol need i remind anyone about the early 90's nissan and toyota trucks? i dont think i see ANY left that have the origional bed on em.. if they do, you can punch a hole thru it with your finger...
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:49 PM   #99
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Vera. I can speed along at 65-75mph in the fast lane getting 40-50mpg on LA freeways np. I will say that the only down side is climbing hills w/ a lot of weight. I take a couple ~10% grades, and people can get pissy on the single lane one if someone isn't going 55+mph, but that can as easily be changed with gearing that'll allow me to make peak power at near 55mph instead of what I have now. So even then it's not a question of appropriate power so much as appropriate gearing.

yup you can move a whole house with a weedwhacker engine if it had the proper gearing. sure it wont go super fast the the principle is there...
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:11 AM   #100
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I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
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